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Technical 292 Y Block info needed

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mike Paul, May 4, 2018.

  1. Mike Paul
    Joined: Oct 10, 2003
    Posts: 930

    Mike Paul
    Member

    I'm looking at possibly buying a '55 292 out of a F550 Super Duty for a future project. I know a little about Y Blocks like the upper oiling issues, but my question is there anything different about this engine since it came out of a big truck vs a car or 1/2 ton pickup? Also is '55 a good year being it was early in the 292 production? I should add It also comes with the manual setup and 4-speed truck trans.
     
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  2. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 401

    miker98038
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    Seems to me the big trucks had a bigger oil pan, and a larger water pump shaft. Some models might have had a governor on the carb. If someone here does know all of it, try the Ford Barn. More truck info than the yblocksforever site on the heavy trucks. Most of the oiling issues were that little passage from the head to the block and non detergent oil. Mummert’s site will also give you casting numbers to have a look at, as a lot of motors and heads got changed. Bottom of the page.

    http://www.ford-y-block.com/
     
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  3. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,067

    town sedan
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    Also the "Y-Blocks Forever" web site. Big truck motor might have a forged crank, most likely a rear sump oil pan. Cars had front sump pans.
    -Dave
     
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  4. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,441

    Boneyard51
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    The block would be a good one to start a build with. There are better stock heads, than the truck heads. Heads that have ECZ cast in them under the water port are the best stock heads. They came on 312s, if you put them on a 292 they will lower the compression a little. The overhead oiling problem was the oil, not the engine as Miker stated. We had several on the ranch back in the day, never had any trouble with them and we worked the hell out of them . Bones
     
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  5. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,438

    Truck64
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    from Ioway

    They might have Rams Horn exhaust manifolds? Can't go wrong there. You want dual exhaust no matter what. Nod your head yes...

    Everything else had shitty oil back in the day too, but the Y Block was known for upper oiling issues. Right? So nice theory ya got there but it doesn't make much sense.
     
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  6. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,441

    Boneyard51
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  7. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,441

    Boneyard51
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    The y block had a small horizontal passage in the head that could clog up if you were using non detergent oil and did not change it regularly and especially if the owner removed the thermostat, very common back then. If you use good oil , change it regularly, you will not have any trouble with the y block today. Sometimes builders enlarge this passage . Bones
     
  8. Alaska Jim
    Joined: Dec 1, 2012
    Posts: 270

    Alaska Jim
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    It should have a rear sump pan with only one "step" in it. this pan , with filter should hold 7 qt's of oil. I will try to post a picture here of the one I am running on my Y Block in my '30 coupe Avatar
     
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  9. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 43,180

    squirrel
    Member

    also the cam bearings are kind of narrow, and when they wear, the cam drops a little, and does not seal the groove in the cam journal that sends oil to those clog prone passages in the head gaskets. There are several problems with the design, but you can make it work with the stock parts, if you pay attention to what's happening.

    292.jpg
     
  10. Alaska Jim
    Joined: Dec 1, 2012
    Posts: 270

    Alaska Jim
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    IMG_0463.JPG IMG_0459.JPG IMG_0459.JPG you can see that there has been a baffle added in the thumb nail picture sorry it did not come large, but if you click on it, it will enlarge. This is the H.D. Truck pan. the baffle around the oil pick up is factory. the one on the right side of the pan is the one that was added.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 4, 2018
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  11. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,859

    F-ONE
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    from Alabama

    The F 250 is still a light truck. It's the same as would be in a F100. Oops I see this is actually a 550.
    If you can, snag the bell housing and all the clutch linkage. The engine and transmission combo would be great if you have the space.

    What it going in?......No matter really, tube headers designed for 1957 Ford cars.....rear exit turn down at firewall work expertly for trucks. Well they did for my 63.

    If you use a performance cam shaft, timing the gears is a little different on a Y block. If I remember corrctly it was not inner dot to inner dot.....but outer Alignment to one side requiring counting the pins (12) between the dots.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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  12. Alaska Jim
    Joined: Dec 1, 2012
    Posts: 270

    Alaska Jim
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    I thought he said it was in a F550. The F550 is a H.D. Truck. F1 is correct about the timing gears
     
  13. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,859

    F-ONE
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    from Alabama

    He did. I can't see well without my glasses.....I could have swore I read.....250.:rolleyes:
     
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  14. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,438

    Truck64
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    from Ioway

    I'm not arguing that oils haven't improved. The contention has always been that it was less than an ideal design and that they had serious upper oiling problems, where other engine designs did not. See the difference?

    There were the outside oilers that people would buy as an accessory - after the dogleg sludged up, I guess. These were pretty common for the Y Block. Not so common for anything else were they? Every other engine had the same shitty oil back then too right? - but it was the Y block that had problems. See where I'm goin' with that? Believe me I love me some Ford, but I'm trying to get you to think here for a second. Sorry to get off in the weeds here.
     
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  15. Alaska Jim
    Joined: Dec 1, 2012
    Posts: 270

    Alaska Jim
    Member

    Look up Ted Eaton on the net . he has a web page and there is a lot of good info there . Y-Blocks are what he does. there is detailed info there on how to modify the oiling system and the rocker arms and shaft's to improve the oiling. also if you surface the heads, do not forget to address the oil "slot" in the head surface. it may need to be made a little deeper. all this and more are on Ted's site . Also see John Mummert's site. there is a wealth of info there. you will spend a few hours on each.
     
  16. Mike Paul
    Joined: Oct 10, 2003
    Posts: 930

    Mike Paul
    Member

    Lots of great info guys, thanks. At this point I am mainly trying to find out if the F550 292 is any different physically than the car version. Being that I was more of a GM guy in the past I know the 409 and 427 Chevy had tall deck blocks in their big trucks which made them different and less popular than the car/light truck engines. From the little research I’ve done on the 292 thus far I found no mention of a difference besides the oil pan. I haven’t seen the engine I’m looking to buy in person yet, so I can’t verify which oil pan or exhaust manifolds it has. Hoping to look at it today.

    To add a little more info here, the 292 would be going in a ‘32 roadster project I plan to do after I finish my coupe. I’m wondering if the 4-speed trans 1st gear would be geared way to low?

    I seem to have a thing for these first generation OHV motors, I put a 1950 Cadillac 331 in my coupe.

    Any more info or things to look for would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
     
  17. finn
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 578

    finn
    Member

    I don’t want to rain on the parade, but there was no F550 Super Duty in 1955, so you most likely have a line on an engine from an F500. Super Duty designation came about a few years later, and were F800-900 series with the truck only large displacement industrial engines.

    The F500 would have been originally equipped with a small displacement 239 Y block, not a 272 or 292. Externally they look the same.

    Sort of how all small block Chevies magically become Corvette engines and lowly 265s more into 327s.
     
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  18. Mike Paul
    Joined: Oct 10, 2003
    Posts: 930

    Mike Paul
    Member

    Also where should I look and what numbers/letters am I looking for to verify it is indeed a 292?
     
  19. First off, I dig the idea of a Y in your 32 roadster. There are several current builds with Y’s that are incredible. It’s nice to see these engines in their glory.

    Regarding 1st gear, if its the truck 4 speed with granny first, you will basically have a 3 speed.

    As far as the block, it should not be any different than a passenger other than oil pan, etc... It’s the heads you want to check for. Some builders like to use the 113 truck heads to start with.
     
  20. Mike Paul
    Joined: Oct 10, 2003
    Posts: 930

    Mike Paul
    Member

    IMG_2251.JPG Finn, great info. Here is a pic of the F550? It came out of.
     
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  21. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,441

    Boneyard51
    Member

    The transmission in the truck could be a T-98, IIRC, if it is, that granny four speed is a lot smoother shifting transmission that the later 435. It would look great in your build, but as stated you would basically have a three speed transmission. In a light car with the torquey y-block , that’s all you would need. I don’t think the 292 came out in 1955, . Bones
     
  22. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,067

    town sedan
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The charts on John Mummert's site shows the '54-55 HD trucks were fitted with the 256 Y-Block.
    Lots of good information there.
    But over the last 63 years anything could have been put between the rails. It might be a 292, most people selling these engines only know the 312 no matter what size it is.
    Buy it if they don't want an arm & a leg. Or, keep looking for a later Y-Block. Cars to '62 / trucks to '64. Or both!
    -Dave
     
  23. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,067

    town sedan
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ted Eaton fixes the oiling to the head problem by machining a groove in the block behind the cam bearing. Add in good oil & regular changes, that's his "fix."
    -Dave
     
  24. As boneyard 51 said, the granny trans would make a great 3 speed. It is what I’m running in my 57 and works great. Mated with 3:10 rear gears (early t-bird) it hums right along.
    I just use 1st for a steep hill or maneuvering.
     
  25. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    My infor sez only 61 -64 big trucks had forged cranks and stronger rods.
     
  26. Often the chevy six would also have oiling problems. there was a very small oil line in the lifter galley that became plugged. But a Y block that the rockers oiled properly was a rare find. And in 58 ford came out with the FE and even with the same crappy oil they never had rocker oiling troubles. and right up until 64 the Y blocks had upper rocker oiling problems. And many of the larger truck engines had the desireable center port exhaust manifolds. The truck engines usually had the larger diameter clutch also.
     
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  27. Ive got a 62 Y block from a F 600. It had the crossover pipe single exhaust. I pulled it to install a 75 FE 360 mill. The 292 has the steel crank. It also has one bad piston. However the piston isn't the same as a passenger car 292.One other tidbit. A 292 ford and a 287 Pontiac used the very same piston rings.
     
  28. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 867

    PackardV8
    Member

    Verify the numbers, as the 256" is a bastard, red-headed, left-handed step-child of Y-blocks found in '54-55 trucks and Lincoln/Mercury. We just had one come into the shop last week and the customer choked when he was told pistons for it are expensive, but the rest of the parts are pretty much the same.

    OTOH, the readily available 272"s can be bored to 292" and pistons are less expensive.

    jack vines
     
  29. I believe there also was a 256 truck Y block?
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  30. Did you ever find a better or wider cam bearing. I used to always hear about spun cam bearings. And Ive taken apart lots of Y blocks that had dry rockers. and never found a spun cam bearing. I agree that the design flaw of too little cam bearing surface allowed internal leakage that caused the most trouble.
     

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