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Technical 289 in a '34 Ford

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by terry k, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. terry k
    Joined: Jan 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,292

    terry k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from toledo oh

    Who has a 289/302 in a '33/'34 Ford. Didn't find anything in the forums. Looking to see how it fits. What needs to be cut, firewall etc. Got a short water pump ready. Thanks
     
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  2. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,106

    34Larry
    Member

    Could a helped you a few years back, (very stupid reply I know). I replaced it with something a little bigger as it didn't have enough power for me. Bought it with stock 302, bought a HO motor for it still not what I was looking for. I might be able to help you if your question is about something I can still relate to.
     
  3. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 3,514

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Love those 289s...
    I shortened my '33 firewall about 4" or 5", lot of work to make look good...
    I would recommend a '35-'36 or '37-'39 truck firewall... about 4" more engine room than the stock '33-'34... sold 5 of them...
    the later group have built in battery boxes, which I like, some don't... i have a '39.
    DSCN1843.JPG
    The trucks have about the same size outside edges as a '33-'34... about the same look... will need to be tunneled along each side of the cowl skin and lower cowl mounts...
    measurements ;
    … hope it helps... DSCN1468.JPG
     
  4. Dave Mc
    Joined: Mar 8, 2011
    Posts: 1,899

    Dave Mc
    Member

    My 33 has an uncut firewall with 302 , short pump from Snow-White
    IMG_1011.JPG
     
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  5. terry k
    Joined: Jan 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,292

    terry k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from toledo oh

    Dave Mc Do you think it would fit with just the short Ford pump ?
     
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  6. FORD FAN
    Joined: Feb 17, 2003
    Posts: 203

    FORD FAN
    Member

    I don't know if a 34 has more or less room than a 32. My SBF fit in without modification to the firewall or moving radiator from stock location in my 32 5w by using a snow white water pump kit.. The Opal water pump has a weird bolt pattern to mount a mech. fan. I may have to have custom fan spacer made and redrill the fan blade.
     
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  7. Cyclone Kevin
    Joined: Apr 15, 2002
    Posts: 3,947

    Cyclone Kevin
    Alliance Vendor

    Take a look at the most famous 34 3W. It has a Blair’s Built 302 10C1ACC7-4226-45F2-871F-A6B9D1B233BC.jpeg E0F41362-519E-4FE3-8F48-F3EDE2FF430C.jpeg 351411AC-CF1D-4D6F-8532-D719050B6BDE.jpeg F311E315-9282-4BD5-A4FD-D38A43AE7D92.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  8. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,285

    Beanscoot
    Member

    What short water pump do you have?

    Here's a genuine Ford of China one:

    https://www.fordracingparts.com/part/M-8501-E351S

    As for the Opel pump that comes with the Snow White kit, is the flange large enough to redrill for a Ford style fan?
    Seems like it would have been nice if they replaced the flange with one that fit the Ford, but I guess that would have made the selling point too high.
     
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  9. Dave Mc
    Joined: Mar 8, 2011
    Posts: 1,899

    Dave Mc
    Member

    Not sure , as I have not used the Ford Motorsports type, I have built two , a 33 and a 34 using the Snow-White Ltd. Opel pump . without cutting the firewall
     
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  10. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,605

    thirtytwo
    Member

    SBC fits perfectly
     
  11. There's one in every crowd... surprised it took this long.
     
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  12. FORD FAN
    Joined: Feb 17, 2003
    Posts: 203

    FORD FAN
    Member

    I don't remember if redrilling the flange is possible. As far as Ford racing short water pump, the pulleys are no longer available. 94-95 Mustang timing cover and reverse rotation water pump is an option but would need all the pulleys etc. and of course serpentine belt is not very traditional looking is it
     
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  13. terry k
    Joined: Jan 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,292

    terry k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from toledo oh

    I'm doing a 289 not a late 302 with the reverse cooling.
     
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  14. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    For what it's worth, an explorer 5.0 front accessory drive is the shortest factory stuff that I know of. I am installing a 5.0 in a 41ford now, and I have both the explorer and a 93 t-bird( should be same as 94-95 mustang) on the shop floor if you want any measurements. I also have a thread going right now on oil pans if interested. A 289 and a 302/ 5.0 block should be the same length.

    All of the above engines are serpentine belt, but it works for me and my use.

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  15. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,285

    Beanscoot
    Member

    I believe those late model stock Ford serpentine setups also are missing the fuel pump eccentric.
     
  16. NewGuyOldFord
    Joined: Jan 17, 2011
    Posts: 587

    NewGuyOldFord
    Member

    I love the ford explorer front water pump setup. It is actually really short. I run the serpentine belt but you have to go with what's available on a budget for short front water pump drive. I've dropped complete ford explorer engines switched to carbureted right in falcons and comets even with the clutch fan and have plenty of clearance to the radiator. Same with my 48 ford. Besides the belt driving it, it's the cheapest ford solution for front engine clearance.
     
  17. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,435

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Too bad serpentine belts are not traditional and are super ugly.
     
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  18. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,320

    continentaljohn
    Member

    It’s great to see this thread on the 289 ford in a 1933 1934 ford. I have no issues with guys cutting the firewall but if you dont need to why? I like a good challenge and love to see guys scratching there heads and saying “ i was told it cant be done with out cutting” I have been a fan of this conversion ford in a ford as some call it. The 289 302 is a great little motor and only swap issue was the length. This was solved by ford making the motor sport pump and they do make it standard and reverse rotation. The pullies are also being made by other companies now. The first one I did 25 years ago they made the waterpump but no belt pullies and had to machine my own. Shortly after I made mine street and performance was making them. They also were contracted by ford to make them for them. This is what I was told by the company making the water pump as I was trying to sell them springs for other water pumps they were making.
    I did a quick search and found CVFRacing making some pullies and March I believe as well for the V-belt setup.
    I also will add in my experience I have found a few other things that make the early ford fit into the early cars . As most ford in a ford threads the 90 degree oil filter adapter that ford motor sports makes as well as other today. The one thing I found is the early ford bronco smog bracket can be used for a alternator mounting it low on the passenger side and also you can replace the smog pump with a A/c unit if needed. This is a nice compact setup for the short pump.
     
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  19. terry k
    Joined: Jan 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,292

    terry k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from toledo oh

    Just want to keep it traditional !! No EFI and serpentine.
     
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  20. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,320

    continentaljohn
    Member

    I agree 100% with that statement as I like to use original 3x2 ford cobra intakes but getting hard to find. I’m glad company like Blue thunder and Holman Moody still make the 3x2 intake .
    I have a 1933 ford Pheaton and have a 21 stud motor in her. I just found a crack in the block and now it has to come out. I tried to put a SBC in her a few years back and couldn’t get it to fit with out some cutting. I never did try the small block ford and know a 289 out of a 1969 bronco that was replace with a 5.0. I will have to shoot my bronco buddy a call. I have the short water pump , v-belt pullies and a 90 degree adapter on the shelf..
     
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  21. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,435

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    I used 60's econoline brackets on mine. With 80's standard rotation aluminum water pump and cheap chrome Chevy wp pulley. I cut the front groove off the crank pulley. Makes it about as short as you can get with stock stuff.

    Explorer may get be shorter but not by much I imagine.
     
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  22. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,435

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Sloppy. How much clearance is there between the battery box and the passenger side valve cover?
     
  23. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    Explorer is 27 and 3/8 from rear of flange to the hub for the fan. The actual pulley is probably another 1/2 shorter.
    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  24. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,320

    continentaljohn
    Member

    image.jpg Svo catalog for short pump and pullies in a v- belt I use a early ford bronco pan 1966 1977
     
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  25. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 3,514

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't know, I am an A to '34 guy...
    will get you measurements of firewall center, from firewall top to center and the distance from battery box to center of firewall...
    I will scratch out and post a crude print if needed....
     
  26. Sweet & Low
    Joined: Feb 13, 2014
    Posts: 260

    Sweet & Low
    Member

    Just getting ready to do this same short water pump project myself. The 302 I have does not have any provision for a fuel pump so i am assuming it's a 1979 to 1993 engine that has a Reverse Rotation water pump. It also has V type pulley's. Like above I was told to go with the Ford Racing Reverse rotation pump and go to Summit for the correct alternator bracket and pulley's. I was told Summit recently came out with these but haven't quit got that far yet. hope this helps.
     
  27. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,285

    Beanscoot
    Member

    So it looks like the two choices for a short water pump using V-belt(s) and a mechanical fuel pump are the Snow White and the Ford Racing pumps.

    The Snow White saves 2". The belt will probably rub on the rad hose but in an acceptable fashion.
    The Ford unit saves 1-1/2", perhaps the Ford engineers chose this length to avoid the rub.

    The Snow White unit uses an oddball, but cheap Opel pump and adaptor which look a bit un-traditional.
    The Ford setup uses a more expensive Ford pump that looks better (to me).

    The Ford setup is available from CVH racing, they carry the pump and either single or two groove pulleys and sets.
     
  28. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,435

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    We are kind of getting a long way from the original question.

    Does anyone actually have a picture of a 33-34 engine bay with a 289-302 in it?
     
  29. terry k
    Joined: Jan 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,292

    terry k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from toledo oh

    Thanks, I was thinking the same thing. I thought this would be a common install. I have a '65 289 with Shelby 2x4 intake/carbs and just had Holman Moody grind a Lemans cam......
     
  30. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,435

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    I have this destined for my 34 roadster project. 289 crank and rods in a 5.0 roller block with ALL the goodies. Tray, roller rockers , ported heads, .512 lift cam etc. IMG_0537.JPG
     
    continentaljohn likes this.

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