289 Ford... and I'm an idiot

I pulled the converter off and nothing appears to be damaged.

 

If you can't get the converter all the way in, a c4 I presume?,the tension from bolting it together the first time is enough to break the seal rings on the front pump .If it is that it will never go in! Don't ask how I know that . Not a real hard to fix though if it is. I also vote to your original problem as a cracked piston skirt, been through that also. With the pan off if you roll it over and examine each piston skirt below the cylinder bottom with a bright light you will probably see it if it is. JW

 

I know you've already replaced the distributor, but your saga sounds quite similar to the problem I encountered in my F100 after installing one of those worthless pieces of shit. Mine ended up binding up, snapping the shaft and breaking part of the oil pump loose. I never tore that engine down, I just sold the truck out of frustration (and lack of money), but the dude I sold it to did tear into and tell me that there were all sorts of shavings a debris in the oil pan. It might be worth it to give the oil pump a good inspection as well as any and everything else around that POS dizzy to check for wear.
Not as technical as some of the info you've received here, but I thought I'd chime in because I hate to hear other folks horror stories about those dizzy's, and they can cause other problems.

 

How do I tell if it is the seal rings? Anything is possible but I can't believe it would take so little to damage the trans. When I drew the bolts up the first time I was using an end wrench on 3 of the 6 and they all seemed to pull up quite easily.

If I wasn't so deep into it financially I would probably have given up on it by now and gone back to GM. Not saying that they are necessarily any better but, for whatever reason, I never had so many flipping problems working on any of my Pontiacs, Olds or Chevys.

 

Bought a 289 cheap with a bad knock. It had been droped and the pan had dent in it . The crank was hitting the pan. Replaced it and put it in our jeep. Ran great.

 

When I just could not get the converter in, a trans shop told me that was more and likely it, and I didn't tighten them much either. I had to remove bell housing and the circle of fromp pump bolts, pull out front pump, could then see rings broke on inside of pump. They are like locking piston rings, shop sold them to me individualy with new outer o-ring. To install pump I cut heads off long bolts to use as guide to install pump straight in. You can find manuals on line. Sounds harder than it is. That distributor problem sounds interesting also.

 

So am I to understand that there is no way to tell without tearing into it? I really don't feel comfortable tearing into the trans myself. Up to this point the only work I've ever done on a trans was replacing the filters in a couple turbo hydros.

 

Is it possible you did this:

I had the flexplate 90 degrees off...I did not line up the drain plugs on the convertor with the large diameter access holes on the flexplate., so the flexplate was "warped" over the plugs when tightened down.

 

I do not believe so. I'll have to look again to be 100% certain but, if I recall correctly, the aftermarket flexplate has drain access holes in multiple locations so as to prevent this problem.

 

Thats how it was for me. I fought the converter till I gave up and talked to a trany shop. I'm not a trany guy but with the ATSG service manualI got through it. Hopefully you get it to go in, sometimes it takes alot of spinning and wiggleing. Mabey some good trany guy will know a way to check the rings nowadays. That happened to me a long time ago but just as you described is the same as I did.

 

could the converter be damaged inside and that is the source of all your problems?

 

Most transmission shops will sell converters outright taking yours as the core, I would do that and have them look at the front pump and seal. There is also a bushing in there, IIRC. With the transmission out, the cost should be minimal and you need to take a break.

The C4 converter takes a couple of clunks to get it fully seated. You should wind up with a gap between the flex plate and converter of maybe a 1/4".

Bob

 

Or possibly a mis-match of parts:

C4 transmissions prior to 1970 had .788-inch, 24-spline input shafts. In 1970, Ford went to a .839-inch, 26-spline input shaft. This involved a corresponding change in the forward clutch hub, which means you have to change all these components. You can't run a 24-spline input shaft in a 26-spline forward clutch hub or vice-versa.

It really becomes tricky with '71-and-later because the input shaft and forward clutch hub became both 24- and 26-spline. From '71-and-later, the torque-converter end of the shaft is 26-spline and the forward-clutch end is 24-spline. Adding to the confusion, there are a variety of different cases that include case-fill dipstick tubes or pan-fill dipstick tubes. Ideally, you should find a complete '71-and-later C4 transmission with all of the improved components so you won't have to hunt down compatible parts.

Two types of flexplates were used with C4 and C5 transmissions: a 157-tooth and a larger 164-tooth along with a larger bellhousing. With some exceptions, 157-tooth flexplates are used with case-fill dipstick tubes, while 164-tooth use pan-fill dipstick tubes. Pan-fill dipstick tubes are more common prior to 1967.

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A rule of thumb for C4 bellhousing identification is those that are 5-7/8-inch deep use 157-tooth flexplates, and those that are 6-1/4-inches deep are the larger 164-tooth flexplate. The C5 is an odd duck with a 164-tooth flexplate and a 7-inch deep bellhousing.

There are many C4 and C5 bellhousing types for a variety of applications. Don't make the mistake of picking up a pump-mount bellhousing for a case-mount C4 and vice-versa. It's easy to make that mistake as these bellhousings look so much alike at first glance. The most obvious difference is 157-tooth versus 164-tooth flexplates. Check depth first, then casting number.


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You said you checked the play in the crankshaft and you said you were gonna pull the main caps, your gonna have to get the main caps off and see what the main bearings look like pulling back and forth on the crank is not gonna tell you anything. you need to pull your cam and check all your lifters also. Sometimes a broke lifter or bent push rod can make alot of noise.

 

Great info but, I believe the converter was in and the car drove. He then pulled motor to check flexplate, removed converter to check it, then it would not go back in all the way to bolt motor back up. Very fustrating I'm sure. Hope he took a break and it will all work out with a fresh look.

 

I realize you said you had replaced the bearings, but did you check the clearances on the rods? (like a plasti-gauge)
I had a 302 that was "rebuilt" new bearings on an old crank that didn't jive

 

As was said...there's the problem, wasn't reinstalled properly. Insert, turn, insert further.

 

Not all GM are the same flavour. Olds for one spins CCW and I believe Pontiac too

 

Indeed! I have just been trying to concentrate on other projects this week(1956 Chevy 150 and John Deere hit and miss engine) to take my mind off of this mess.

 

Dude, you have to post pictures and videos . . . .

 

It was over three years ago. If that motor is still knocking he's probably heavily medicated and in a rubber room now.

 

Forgot I had never posted a conclusion to this saga. The noise did ultimately turn out to be the result of that 1 loose bolt in the flex plate. As for the converter, I fought it for another hour or so after my last post with no luck. I pulled the trans and took it to a friend who has done transmissions for 40 years or more. He pulled it apart, couldn't see anything wrong with it, and put it back together. To this day we don't know what was out of place. But after he had it apart and back together, the converter slid right in.

Here is a pic of the car when it was finished. I did the paint and bodywork in my garage.

 

Exactly the problem I had recently. Replaced all the bolts and Locktite'd them.

Listen to the engine with a piece of hose to your ear to isolate where the sound is coming from. In my case the sound was definitely more pronounced from the rear of the engine and the bell housing area.

 

nice little falcon. worth all the problems, right??
I worked 3 days trying to get spark to my '39 ford with a 302. replaced procomp box, distributor, coil etc. found out it was a butt connector came apart in the distributor wires!!! nevr too old to learn

 

I have always wanted a second gen Falcon. Haven't found one I can afford or to damn rusty & beyond my pay grade.
Your's is really nice!
It's always the small things that are the biggest PITA!

 

Thanks for posting the resolution to the story! Some of these mystery threads just fade away without update. Nice Falcon too, 64-65 are beautiful cars, that's a great home paint job!

 

Hey, better late than never. Nice car and glad you got it straightened out.

 

I was really lucky on this one. The guy who started the project had bought it as a rolling shell from the southwestern US. No rust ever.

 

I'm sorry to say that by the time I got all the bugs worked out I was so bitter that I ended up selling the car to focus on another project(summer 2014). Now I wish I had it back(of course).

 

Somebody sure got a nice car. Good Job!