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289 Ford... and I'm an idiot

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by midnightrider78, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. raven
    Joined: Aug 19, 2002
    Posts: 4,614

    raven
    Member

    Go with Mallory.
    r
     
  2. You won't be sorry with the PerTronix distributor and if you have an issue with it, I am on here pretty much daily and wok for PerTronix so i can walk you through any issues that might come up.
     
  3. mattrod68
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 524

    mattrod68
    Member

    pertronix distributors now come in a cool "as cast" finish, look old work like new cant go wrong.

    matt
     
  4. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    Ended up ordering the Pertronix distributor and coil late last night. Got the distibutor, coil and coil bracket, shipped here, for slightly less than the cost of the Mallory distibutor.
     
  5. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    When you took out the HEI distributor, you said you marked everything so it could go back in the same way. You also said that you can't get more than 3 deg advance because the body hits the thermostat housing. When you were having trouble lining up the oil pump drive, you should have clocked the distributor into the next previous gear tooth, so that when the distributor went in you would have the full range to turn the body to get the 10 deg advance that you need. You could have tested the theory that this is a case of too far retarded timing, but now you are waiting for a new distributor which may not fix the problem.
     
  6. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    That was precisely what I was attempting to do. I marked the old location so that if I screwed up, I would at least know where I had begun.

    This whole episode was just the kick in the pants I needed to get the new ignition parts ordered. I have loathed that clubby chinese distributor from the moment I bought the car and, at least initially, it had nothing to do with how it was or was not functioning. Up until now I was just too cheap to buy something different.
     
  7. mustangmike6996
    Joined: Apr 7, 2013
    Posts: 147

    mustangmike6996
    Member
    from the D

    Any progress or updates?
     
  8. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    Got the new distributor, coil and wires installed Sunday night. Didn't make any measurable difference with regard to the awful hammering sound. It does however start easier and idle smoother though. Not to mention looking better underhood.

    I haven't done anything else since Sunday. I'm just trying to mellow out/recharge before I get back to it.
     
  9. Buzznut
    Joined: May 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,349

    Buzznut
    Member

    This is the first time I've seen this post, but I was going to mention the same thing. I bought a '67 GT350 for cheap because the distributor was 180 degrees out and it ran like absolute shit. Got it home, reinstalled the distributor correctly, new plugs and wires, ran like a striped ass ape. The upside was that the guy selling it had just won the pink and tried messing with it without knowing what he was doing, so it wasn't 180 out for too long before I bought it, but I imagine that firing in the wrong order wouldn't take too long to cause damage...

    Make sure the distributor in properly indexed. Start with cylinder 1 at TDC and go from there.
     
  10. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    Been messing with this POS a bit more and I think the issue may be play in the crank. I went out last night, grabbed onto the balancer, pushed back and pulled forward. I couldn't visually tell if it was moving or not, but it sure sounded like it. I pushed back and there was a little bit of a thunk. The same noise also when I pulled back forward. As I said, I can't actually see it move back and forth and honestly I don't even feel it move any measurable amount. But the sound it makes is sure telling me there is movement.
     
  11. n.z.rodder
    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Posts: 1,016

    n.z.rodder
    Member

    But is the movement in the crank or just the balancer? you need to pull the inspection cover on the trans and check for play there.

    Scotty
     
  12. Pimpin37zephyr
    Joined: Jul 20, 2010
    Posts: 110

    Pimpin37zephyr
    Member

    Stick with it midnight, my brother bought a 66 galaxie convert with a "rebuilt 289" last sept.
    Since then the motor been out 2 times and the heads off three. but we got off the mat and the cars running great now and we even went to a car show with no tools at night an hour away. So keep the faith! Good luck.
     
  13. mustang6147
    Joined: Feb 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,847

    mustang6147
    Member
    from Kent, Ohio

    I love the 289. You might be better off, pulling the engine out and disassembling it, inspecting the rotating assembly.....

    He may have had a journal that was questionable..... One way to tell is, put thick oil in it..... I personally would dissassemble the engine is so easy, its a Saturday and sunday job.....
     
  14. castirondude
    Joined: Jan 26, 2012
    Posts: 496

    castirondude
    Member

    I think a little bit of forward/backward movement is normal. My 460 (which I built from swapmeet parts) had that and it has been fine. The critical clearances are _around_ the crankshaft. If you can move it up and down that is bad for sure but forward/backward is not so critical

    Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
     
  15. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,461

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    It sounds like the thrust bearings may be gone. If you can hear that same noise by pulling on the damper you may have a major problem. Of course you cannot pull it back and fourth much because your pulling against the whole drive train.
    I've seen a 302 so bad it was eating into the timing cover. We thought the cover was wrong. It would loose oil pressure going up and down hill. We found out why when we pulled it. Going up or down hill the crank would slide past the oiling holes. Thats why it was eating the cover, the crank was sliding into it. You need to bite the bullet, pull it and check those thrust bearings.
    That may explain the debris in the pan. It could be part of the timing cover. Oh that 302 ran really good too.
     
  16. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    Got a chance to work on this project for a short while tonight. I pulled the pan and checked to make sure the thrust bearing was on the correct main since it was mentioned that this could have been the problem. The thrust bearing is on the correct main(#3). I moved the crank back and forth again now that I would be able to watch the movement relative to the thrust bearing. As I said before it doesn't move much but it does appear to move maybe 1/64" which is double the allowable spec that I found.
     
  17. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member

    Now that you have the oil pan off you can check the main bearings, just pull one main cap at a time, and put it back on before puliing the next one. The bearing shell in the main cap takes most of the beating, also look closely at the crankshaft between the main bearing jounals, and the rod bearing journals because it is possible (but unlikely) that the crankshaft could be broken, but yet still be able to run. If you see a copper color on the main bearings they are worn out.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2013
  18. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    I have already replaced the rod bearings and looked at the journals. In my ignorance I thought the hammering noise was "obviously" the rod bearings. Replacing these didn't change a thing even though the old ones appeared to have been worn funny. Hopefully, I'll have the opportunity/motivation to start pulling mains tomorrow. I'll try to post some pics when I can also.
     
  19. elba
    Joined: Feb 9, 2013
    Posts: 622

    elba
    Member

    Make sure your converter is is tight. It will sound just like a rod knock if it is liise.
     
  20. Okatoma cruiser
    Joined: Feb 9, 2013
    Posts: 179

    Okatoma cruiser
    Member
    from Ms

    While you're at it pull one of the rod caps off and look at the bearings- check for wear pattern. Take a flash light and look at cylinder walls and piston skirts- check oil pump pickup tube to make sure nothing's hitting it
     
  21. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,101

    sunbeam
    Member

    Do the easy stuff first run some top engine cleaner through it.. It could just be some carbon on a piston.
     
  22. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    I checked the converter already. 2 of the nuts were just barely loose and I got them tightened up. The sound got better after I did this but is still very much present.

    Actually it sounds about the same now as when I got it. In the 15 miles or so to get it home and a few times of turning the car around in the driveway, the noise had gotten quit a bit worse. After I tightened these nuts up it got back to being "only" as bad as when I purchased it.
     
  23. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member



    It sounds like maybe the flex plate is broken just right around where it bolts to the crankshaft.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  24. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    I split the motor and trans tonight. I cleaned the flexplate up and looked it over. I couldn't see any damage on it. One of the 6 bolts on the flexplate was only pulled up fingertight. Since it was only one of the 6 that was not completely tight, I am wondering if that alone was enough to cause that awful hammering?
    I am going to check one more time how much play is in the crank before I decide how to proceed.
     
  25. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    Before I put anything back together I want to figure out for sure if this is the correct flexplate. There is a number stamped on it: V5L0963 164N. Can anybody tell me if this is correct. I don't know if this is a Ford part or aftermarket. The only other stamping on it says "made in mexico"
     
  26. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    I checked the play on the crank again now that the motor is out. It is not as bad as I first thought. It is within the appropriate tolerances... barely, but it is OK.
     
  27. Hmmm I was thinking the converter.
     
  28. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member

    I'd get a new flexplate for it, they don't cost too much. You should be able to unbolt the bellhousing from the trans, put the bellhousing, and starter on the engine, and start it. If it still knocks atleast you eliminated the torque converter/transmission from being the problem.
     
  29. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,017

    midnightrider78
    Member

    Ok guys. I've kind of busy working on some other things, but I did manage to work on this a little bit more... and I'm stuck again.

    I got a new Scat flexplate and ARP bolts. I put the motor back in and had it almost together when I tried to turn the thing over to tighten the converter to flexplate bolts and it wouldn't budge at all. Hooked the hoist back up, loosened bolts and slid the motor away from the trans about 1/2". Then it would turn over easy as can be. At this point I figured the converter wasn't seated properly. Started tightening bolts back up, turning the motor over periodically as I went to see if I could get the converter to slip into place that way... No such luck. However it would still turn over when motor and trans were 1/8" or less apart, but once it was bolted all the way together it wouldn't move again. Pulled the motor all the way out again and have been trying to get the converter further back with no luck.

    The mounting pads on the converter are currently 15/16" from the face of the bell housing. The info I have found says that measurement should be 1 and 1/8". I have fought this piece of junk for over an hour and have been unable to get the converter to sit back any further.

    Is it as simple as the converter not being properly seated or is there something else going on since it is only off less than 1/4"? Tips, tricks?
     
  30. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member

    Sometimes it can be a real bear to get the convertor to seat in all the way (when the convertor is all the way in the back side of it should be really close to the bellhousing), but since it was tightened untill the engine wouldn't turn I would pull the convertor out to make sure the snout on the convertor not damaged
     

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