Hello all, I'm new to the HAMB and also to building engines. Here is my questions, I have a 57 chevy 210 2 door sedan with the 235 inline 6. I'd like to remove that engine and put in a 1966 283 that I'm rebuilding. When I get the block/heads back (power pack heads) and start putting it back together i'd like to do a mild build, nothing crazy as it will be a family cruiser.. As I stated i'm new to this and here in lies my dilemma.... I have no idea what to do for a mild build. I'm assuming that would entail a cam, headers? I also purchased an edelbrock dual intake with twin edelbrock 600 carbs to go on it. The car currently has the factory 3 speed manual transmission and rear end. I've leaving the current transmission in if possible however i've heard i need to replace the bell housing on the transmission to accommodate the V8, is that correct? I was also told that a 55, 56, 57 V8 bell housing will fit if it's from a V8 from that era? I'm of course doing this on a budget and would like to leave it as original as possible if I can ie: transmission, drive shaft, rear end although any must dos would be greatly appreciated. If you're willing any info on what cam to put in, lifters, if transmission should be replaced etc. would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure i missed a bunch of things and thats why i'm here...to learn. Thanks!
The 55-57 bell housing from a V8 works fine if your going to use the factory rear mounts. If you are going to put in a crossmember type trans mount ,and side engine mounts then you can use a later aluminum bell housing. I think a single 600 cfm carb would be plenty,but you can set up the carb linkage as progressive so the second carb comes in at higher rpm. As for a cam I would use something in the range of a comp xe256,or xe 262. Remember bigger cams in smaller engines act bigger than they do in a 350. As far as headers they do add HP,but they do it at the top of the engines rpm range. If your seldom going to see 5000 rpm then ram horns work ok,and can be quieter. My over all thought is if the cars going to live at 2800 rpm on city streets dont buy components that work best after 4800 rpm.
2 x 600 cfm is too much. A 283 would be strong with 1 x 500 cfm. The 3" stroke doesn't like too much cam duration so be really conservative. Personally , I would drop a 327 crank and 307 pistons into the 66 block [there is no clearance issues compared to earlier 283 blocks. Deck the block so there is zero deck clearance. Do a decent valve seat and valve job. Use this cam https://www.northernautoparts.com/part/ml-mtc1 it is the highest lift you can get without valve spring coil bind. And has short duration [And Cheap] and a good set of rams horn exhaust manifold. Check to see if you 283 block is drilled for front engine mounts on both sides. [sometimes it isn't on later 283 blocks] You will need a 265/283 bellhousing to use your existing clutch brackets. Some front engine mount brackets and your existing front mounts. [you front x-member is drilled for both] And a 168 tooth flywheel and truck starter motor. If you're lucky you could have the 10" clutch behind the 235 that can be reused. [I have a 6 cyl clutch in mine , it was new and given to me] Now if you really want to be clever! Try and find a roller cam 350 shortblock [eg IROC Camaro or newer] and swap onto it your power pack heads, rocker covers, exhaust manifolds , short waterpump and your existing 2 x 600 carbs. The 350 has 8.6:1 with dished pistons, and fitting the power pack heads raise the compression to 9.5:1 with no machining required. Try and disguise the 350 to look like a 265/283 You will need a 168 tooth flywheel for a 1 piece rear main seal crank. This ^^^ would be a more satisfying result for a family driver [and a cheaper build] It would have a lot of grunt just "off the throttle"! Most roller cam 350's usually just need a "ring and bearing" overhaul whereas the 283 will need a re-bore.
What Irishsteve said. It amazes me the money spent on those parts, just because in most cases they heard what they wanted to hear rather then trying to understand how it all works together. Like those noisy over priced flow master mufflers that everyone thinks is the answer to building a hot rod. All I can say is, yea right.
Haha! My thinking exactly. On my 283 I converted the exhaust from dual exhausts back to 1 single [2-1/2"] it sounds a lot better. I'm into road-racing and the large single is the exhaust of choice
Wow… so much information! After I have someone translate all this I’m sure it’ll make sense!! Can’t thank you enough for the information.
Lots of good advise stated above.. Particularly over carbing it... one 500 cfm will do wonders. Also agree on no headers.... Use a good pair of 2 1/2 Ram Horns and full 2 1/2 exhaust. Your choice on intake is a good one, just only one carb. An old style 350hp 327 L79 type cam will do wonders for a 283. My opinions are based on my little 283 I have been driving for (12) years that is: Bored 60 over to 292 305 HO heads 2 1/2" Ram Horns with full 2 1/2' exhaust. HEI ignition . Single 500 cfm Edelbrock carb with Edelbrock dual plane Started out with an L79 cam which was very snappy, but wanted more, so put a larger Comp Cam in. Went with a Saginaw 4 speed with a 3:11 first gear. Used a 3.73 rear end. My combination is in a '63 Biscayne and is a pleasure to drive. Very snappy, especially from ~3000 to 4800 rpm. Not putting it off as a drag car, but will run right with the 327-300 hp's all day long. Good luck, and JMO, but sure works great for me.
Great information and thanks a ton! The dual carb setup is just an aesthetic thing for me, I just love the way it looks. I have been told it’s to much before and that one 500-600 would be plenty and that their finicky but I like the look. Besides Chevrolet made it work in 57 so it should be doable now? I have lots to learn and am going to take my time and hound everyone on hear until it’s done! Thanks for the link!
I agree with Hdolnybob about using 305 Chevy heads. I don't know what the HO head number(s) are, but I put a pair of 1.84" intake valve 416 casting heads on a 283 I reecently built. 58CC combustion chambers to boost compression ratio a bit. There is a 620 casting head with 53CC chambers for more compresion yet, but the intake valve is more shrouded and likely wouldn't flow as well as the 416 heads. With some patience you should be able to find a pair at a reasonable price. I gave $100 for the pair I used on my 283 and only lapped the valves since the valves and seats looked just fine. I also just bought and built a 305 that turned out to be really solid and was happy it already had the 416 heads on it. Took some time to find, but I got the complete 305 for $100. I do think the cam he recommended might be a bit much though for the 283, but that also depends on the end use. I used an "RV" cam in the recent rebuild to give the engine some low end and it had just a smidge of rumble at idle. I think the duration of the RV cam was similar to what irishsteve mentioned in his post. Dual carbs would look impressive but a single 500 or 600 will be all the engine needs.....unless you're really going crazy with it. Best wishes. Lynn
One of my friends has a setup almost like Hdonlybob, Its in a 55 pickup and runs strong with a 600cfm Edelbrock. He has however two 500 cfm carbs for looks and idle. It sound real good and looks good, just not quite as strong. The best part is has been very dependable as a drive anywhere truck for over 20 years.
The Rochester 4g and Carter WCFB carbs used by Chevy were under 400 CFM. [each] To get the awesome correct look on your 57 you need a "Batwing" air cleaner [not cheap] You will also need to move the Radiator behind the front support. This involves drillig out the spot welds on the horse-collar part of the radiator support and turning it around 180 deg and re-welding. Then get a radiator shop to swap the radiator mounts from L to R [The Harrison 6 6cyl radiator is larger than the V8 and cools better] The V8 engine also weighs less than the 6.[so no suspension changes are needed] You do not have to remove any front sheet-metal or hood or bumper to pull the engine out or install. Just remove the front radiator support panel. [Leaving the hood as-is also saves the paint] Here is the proof [both engine and box together] one other thing you will need is the V8 throttle lever off the firewall. [install this before the engine goes in] Seriously consider the late model 350 shortblock. The roller cam allows higher lift without too much duration. A good shortblock would be cheaper than a freshen up of a 283. [rebuilding a 283 costs even more] With the power-pack heads you end up with is a "high velocity fuel feeder" that has good street manners [low down torque for doing skids and being a "boulevard bandit"] This ^^ is what Chevy did with the L98 Corvette [with 58cc chambers] vs 60cc for power packs The problem with 58cc L98 or 58cc 305 Chevy heads is they have those "Fugly" centrebolt rocker covers which is a dead giveaway. I did this ^^^^very build for my friends pickup.[also using a 66 Impala 283 for donor parts] The engine looks like a stock 283 [but pulls like a schoolboy] With the careful selection of parts and a few decals you could build a real sleeper that would appear standard to most.
Chevrolet made it work in 1957 by using two Carter WCFB carbs that were appoximately 350 CFM each. I love the performance of dual quads which are correctly sized, but even two 500's on a mild 283 would be difficult. Lots of the advice here missed the comment you made in your first post about this build being a family cruiser (unless possibly your last name is Andretti or Unser). Have fun with your build, and build it on paper BEFORE buying parts. EDIT: a bit more information. When the 283 was current production, and Carter was still in the business of manufacturing carburetors; Carter recommended a SINGLE 500 CFM carburetor for the enthusiast with a HOT 283 that drove spiritedly on the street, and went to the local drag strip on the weekends. Carter suggested a single 400 CFM carb for a HOT 265 as above. So where does a mild 283 fit in? While it may initially seem like wasted cost; I would highly suggest a single 4 intake with an absolute maximum of a single 500 CFM carb to break in the engine, and enjoy the car. If you are truly in love with the dual quads (yes, they look great, and properly sized, work great); AFTER the engine is broken in, do some research. The original WCFB carbs Chevy used on the dual quad 283's (which were NOT mild) were between 350 and 360 CFM each. Studebaker used a single Carter WCFB on their 259 that was approximately 300 CFM. You would have a MUCH improved chance of making two of the Studebaker carbs work than two 600's. As far as wasted initial costs??? If the two 600's wash down the pistons rings and the engine seizes during break-in, maybe there is a different cost. Jon
I don't know what casting number heads above might be referring to, but the 416 and 620 heads have "normal" SBC 4-bolt perimeter bolts holding the valve covers. Later 305's did go to the Vortec "center bolt" covers. FWIW....Using a rebuild "kit" from Northern Auto Parts, I think I had about $1200-$1300 invested in rebuilding a 283, including machine work. Lynn
There's a heap of 283 threads on here, awesome little engines, love em. FWIW, I built a .030" up 283 with the same cam (Summit sells the same grind, as does Elgin, Melling and a few others) and used a pair of fresh 416 HO heads (they take a 59 0n, straight bolt valve cover, an Eddy Performer intake modded with a front oil fill tube/breather, a 465 Holley, 2" rams horns and dual 2" exhaust. I added a 1" 4 hole phenolic spacer to speed up air in the intake and keep the carb cool, works very well. If running an auto I would'nt run a bigger cam than this one at 204/214 @.050" with a stock convertor, its one the edge of needing more stall. In a light hot rod with similar or more rear gear you'd get away with more cam/carb with a higher stall or a manual trans. I dropped it all into my 47 Chevy coupe with a shift kitted T350 and stock convertor and 3.5 gears......runs awesome, even chirps the tires on the 1-2 shift and is good on fuel on the road trips.
My son did a nice 283 "fun" engine in his 64 Chevelle 4 dr. It was an original 283 3 speed car-39,000 actual miles. He did a build similar to what Hdonlybob has. I had a fairly low miles rebuilt 283 bored .030 in the shop which had bad power pak heads. We found a set of 305 heads, bought the L79 cam and new lifters, double roller timing set, recurved old points distributor, and a nice Rochester 4 jet carb on a 63 intake manifold. We got a 2 1/2 inch dual exhaust kit off ebay and used the stock manifolds. He replaced the 3 speed with a Saginaw 4 speed (wide ratio) and it is a peppy, reliable, fun to drive family cruiser. He constantly has people complimenting him on the looks and the "boogeda-boogeda" sound coming out the tailpipes. Now we need to smoothe out the "whiskey" dents and repaint.
The 57 V8 had a bellhousing that has rear motor mounts. When using one of those, there will be front engine mounts that sit on rubber biscuits. There will be no engine mounts on the side of the engine block like most engines have and later Chevys have. The stock set up will then have the 3 speed transmission hanging in the air with no support. Its a poor set up and can lead to trans failure. Later engines have mounts about mid-way along the side of the block and use a rear crossmember to support the transmission. Don't know if your stock transmission has a mount on it. Moving to the engine. The thing that makes most street driven cars enjoyable to drive is a wide torque band. Torque is usually a function of engine displacement as well as camshaft choice. When you start with a small displacement engine like a 283 in a relatively heavy vehicle like a 57 Chevy, torque is a good thing to have. If you change camshafts you will probably give up some of the little torque you have. The cost to do a decent rebuild will exceed the cost of a replacement crate engine. You cannot buy parts on an individual basis, and pay for labor intensive machine work more cheaply than buying a mass produced crate engine. You can do a lot of things that are "iffy" at best.....to save money.....but you still need the tools to do them. By that I mean ......are you going to bore it, hone it, and buy new pistons? If you do that you have to be able to press the rods out of the pistons. Do you have that ability and a hydraulic press. You can resize the rods ($$$$) and replace the rod bolts ($$$$).......or buy new aftermarket rods with good bolts probably as cheap as reconditioning. The engine block will need some resizing and cleaning. Maybe a $100 for a good cleaning and just hope there is no cracks or problems. Decking.......probably should ($$$$). Boring (probably) ($$$$) Honing (definitely) ($$$$) You can hone one yourself but you must have a hone ($$$$) and a 1/2 inch drill ($$$$). Honing at home is doable but its seldom as good as a professionally honed block and usually shows up with leaky rings before too long. What about those heads. Are they worth more for their collector value than actually having them rebuilt? You probably need the guides redone ($$$$) and maybe new valves($$$$). Definitely need new springs ($$$$). Probably going to want to put new/better rocker arms on them ($$$$). Probably need to have them resurfaced ($$$$). Buy new heads or buy a longblock that has heads is better. Crank is going to need turning if its still got metal to turn. Remember its 60+ years old. ($$$$) Balancing ($$$$) And when you are all done, you get to warranty it yourself. Anyway, the point here is that it basically costs as much to recondition a 283 as it does a 350.......but you can buy a quality Goodwrench crate engine even cheaper than you can decently build an engine yourself. You also get a pretty good warranty with it. Your nostalgic engine and the trans might bring a pretty good price from the restoration guys. My suggestion is to buy a crate 350 and a later bellhousing. Truck bellhousings have a larger hole so stick with a car housing. Buy an aftermarket engine mount for the later engine mounts and an aftermarket trans crossmember. Do some research on high performance manual transmissions (there is a book on Amazon). Probably a world class T5 transmission ($300/$500). You will find that to provide a good enjoyable powerband and nice highway speeds. The trans will last if you don't abuse it. It has a better chance of succeeding with the 2x4 set up than the 283 does. Don't brush off suggestions that your carb set up may be too much. Again, you need to read and research what size carbs will work. If your engine is running rich all the time it will wipe your rings out and smoke. It takes some work and fiddlin to get one carb to work well much less two (and I love 2x4 set ups). You are following the classic newbe mistake of over carbing and possibly over camming an engine in a heavy car. I wish you well on building your first car, but many builders spend a lot of money for something that sounds kool when you are bragging about whatyagot........but they usually don't perform well. Edit: Listen to Carbking..........he knows
Come on this ain’t 1-(800)-str-trod. Rebuild that 283 and stick to the script you have. You will like it. Maybe try to send those 600 carbs back for some 500s. Hold the course!
Most of the 305 heads I've seen were the 80's centre-bolt variety. [these are imported into NZ] even these are 40 years old 305 heads are a good swap onto a 350 to build a Torquer [they starve the engine at high RPM] When doing this ^^^ the Cam and Carb selection needs to be compatible. The only advantage that @ubuybme would have with swapping 305 heads onto a 283 is hardened valve seats , But he already has a 283 with power pack heads. He could keep the power packs if they are still good. [just deck the block to zero and cut the valves] I can attest to the "Kit" from Northern Auto Parts [ I got them to send me one to New Zealand and it was still very economical] I would've dropped a 327 crank into my 283 if it was possible [The early 57 block won't allow 327 crank clearance] @ubuybme wants a family "toy" and.......... he want's to keep the original 3 speed [still 3 on the tree?] For this, he doesn't want/need a "high strung animal" That is why I suggested stroking the 283 or better still ,disguising a 350 to look like a 283 [with good low down manners] Our 57 283 is fully rebuilt and we upped the compression to a true 10:1 [we have 98 octane in NZ] Then we installed a torquer cam and converted the engine to 2 barrel [We've kept the original 4v setup] The engine behaves like a diesel engine which is great with a 3 speed column shift. Our motive for a 2 barrel was to eventually go to tri-power [but we now like it as is] We all need to get in control of our egos and be really honest with what we really want. [I have other cars to serve other purpose]
The 305 heads guys are referring to are the perimeter bolt 305s, a good choice to upgrade on a smallblock. I have a set I may use on my 283 since I have 2BBl heads And Northern is a GREAT resource! The owner is actually a HAMBer although I have not sen him post in ages.
While I get where you're coming from, it's not as much doom and gloom and $$$$. Decent, workable 283s are still pretty easy to find, parts too. Sure a crate 350 is easier and may be cheaper (the right 283 can be hopped up, mildly, for less). Something to consider, that 350 will still need "stuff." If it were me, I'd have to take a step back and put an intake, covers, etc., to get the look right. Plus, it's a slippery slope. If you're going to plop in a generic 350, you may as well spend a few bucks more and go 383 and on and on... hahaha.
Back to the Fifties car show is coming to St. Paul the middle of June. You should be able to find a nice 283 already to go at the show-or at least someone who has one and if you attend, you will see the exact combination you want at the show==probably lots of them.
I'm running dual WCFB's for a 56 Dodge D500 on my 283, and it runs fucking great! Smooth from idle to max rpm, no bog anywhere. I would stick to the original plan, maybe swap the 600's for 500's. Flyin Bryan here on the HAMB did exactly that on the 283 he put into his 34 Roadster, and it ran great as well. Keep in mind that the Edlebrock carb design uses an air valve to keep the secondaries closed until there is sufficient air flow, keeping air velocity up and preventing a bog.
Thanks Jon… maybe I should reconsider or go with the smaller CFM carbs? I know the batwing is costly as someone stated and I’m willing to eventually invest in one. Thanks for reading and your suggestions. Nice catch on the family cruiser!
https://www.northernautoparts.com/part/ml-mtc1 This cam, suggested by 55blacktie, is exactly the one I used in a 283. Great minds think alike. Lynn
Basically it comes down to whether you are satisfied with talking about what you built in car show parking lots and getting dusted by soccer moms at redlights...........or taking the same money and building a car that actually has some performance and highway crusing capability. Some people like to brag about part numbers and others like to brag about the numbers at the drag strip. My wife has a Toyota Rav4. An online site says it will do 0-60 in 9.1 seconds and 1/4 mile in 16.6 Another random online site (only one I looked at) says a 283 powered 57 Chevy will do 0-60 in an identical 9.1 seconds but is 3/10ths slower in the quarter mile. So the average 4 cyl SUV is (hypothetically) gonna outrun your car by 3 car lengths in the quarter mile. If I build a "hot rod", my minimum goal is not to be embarassed by the average commuter vehicle on the road. Don't mean this as a smarta** comment, just pointing out the reality of a small engine in a heavy car. Whatever you decide to build, I hope it satisfies your dream. https://www.carindigo.com/toyota/rav4/0to60 https://www.google.com/search?q=195...l2j33i299.20764j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Only pointing out the reality of driving a nostalgic vehicle in todays world...........you can't ignore it. The whole idea of hot rodding was to build cars that were faster than or could compete with what was rolling off the assembly lines. Today thats mostly SUVs. The point simply is that when you put a 283 powered 3400 lb vehicle on the highway........and use a 3 speed manual trans with the lower gearing from a 6 cylinder in the rear end............you will be driving in the slow lane and you will continually have a rear view mirror filled with SUV grills. Doesn't really matter what kind of vehicles they are, its the roads we drive on that make higher speeds a necessity. Basically minimum commuter speed on a highway today is gonna be 70 mph.....and thats the slow lane. Was driving my truck 80/85 mph the other day coming home............guy was riding my bumper. He was in an SUV. Tradition does have its limitations.
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