Hot Rods '28 A with Super Bell spindles.. BRAKE help! :)

Good Thursday afternoon! My dad and I are building a '28 A roadster on a Pete and Jakes Chassis. We are using a dropped axle with super bell spindles. We got the "full" kit to install GM disk brakes on the spindles. Everything seemed to go together perfectly. However, the rotor is about 1/4-1/2 inch too far inboard. This makes it impossible to install the inboard brake pad. It seems as if the bearing adapter is too far on the spindle. If we could pull the adapter back off the noted 1/4 to 1/2 inch, it would work perfectly.

Any thoughts on what we may have done wrong?

Thanks so much!

 

You may want to check with the folks you bought the brake kit from

 

Probably the wrong races on the disc. If the bearing kit came with races and the rotors already had them installed like they usually do... yank em out and use the ones that came with the bearing kit.


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Try using E.C.I. disc brake kits. they fit, they work, and you only have to install them 1 time.

 

The kit came from Speedway. The spindles were placed in the freezer overnight while the adapters were placed in the oven for a couple hours. It looks like the adapters are too far on the spindle. Speedway says they have never had an issue previously. Do we need to remove these adapters and start over? Thank you for your input!

 

Provide a bit more information, there are a number of options with those brake kits. Are you using '70-'77 calipers or the '78 and up metric style, and do you have Mopar 4 1/2" bolt circle, or GM 4 3/4" BC rotors

 

Impossible to put the bearing spacer on "too far" - it goes ALL THE WAY ON. Here is a photo - what does your's look like?

 

That looks exactly like ours. However, the spacer provided in the kit (that goes between the axle nut and bearing) is the exact distance the bearing adapter needs to come outward in order for the pads to fit on the inboard side. Could you share with me what you did to install the bearing adapter? Ours looks like if the pads were worn half way down, it would all be a perfect fit.

 

Not sure if you have this figured out yet...I heated the bearing adapter with a propane soldering torch. Then I used a brass punch to fully seat it against the back of the spindle.
Not a picture of my spindle, but it appears "all the way on" in this photo.

 

As mentioned above - did you swap out the races?

 

We need some photos, I've never seen a spacer that goes between the outer bearing and the spindle Nut and washer.

I think the problem is as suggested you need to change the inner race on the rotor. It's plausible that what you've put between the he spindle nut and the bearing is actualy the new race you're suppose to have put in the rotor.

Photos would help a ton

 

Thank you all for the responses and help! Our adapter looks VERY much like the one pictured. I just talked to my dad and he recalls having the inner race (included in the kit) installed in the rotor. However, when I look at the part numbers in the speedway adapter kit, the inner race (or cone as they call it) is simply the factory GM inner race number for that rotor. Does anyone happen to know the part number for an inner race, bearing, and seal that have worked for you?
Thank you all so much in advance for any guidance you can provide. The car is running and ready for its first drive.... we just need to be able to stop it... lol
-Scott

 

I have put several of these kits on with no problem, are you sure the inner race (cup) that came in the rotor was removed and the inner race (cup) that was shipped loose with the kit was installed?

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Dude...When you use the word "race" in a sentence, it gives us hope that you can get this figured out. But since you haven't gotten this figured out, we are at a loss as to what to do next. To us, it seems easy. Buy kit from Speedway, install spacer on spindle, pop races that came installed in the rotor out and install the races that came in the Speedway kit into said rotor. You loose us when you ask if we have any part numbers that "work"??? Everything you need came in the kit from Speedway. I'm willing to start at square one if needed. The HAMB is pretty boring these days.

 

Chucky, that is exactly why we are at a loss. We did exactly what you describe: bought the speedway kit, used all the components and resulted in the issue as described. We are not novice builders and that is why this seems so odd. We took the rotors to a local machine shop to have the original races removed and replaced with the ones Speedway supplied. Our concern now is that they charged us without having performed the work. So, if we can get the part numbers speedway uses for the inner race, we can just buy that and press the current ones out and press in the verified correct races. After reading everyone's input, guidance, and help, I fell sure the shop did not replaces the races. But, when I look on Speedways site, the part number they provide is the factory GM rotor inner race. If someone knows a part number that "works," we could at the very least rule this out. I REALLY appreciate everyone's time and input! Thank you so very much!

 

If I had to GUESS, I would bet the shop looked at the new races in your rotors and said "these are new, they dont need replaced" and charged you, not knowing they were different dimensions.

 

Sure, nothing else causing the problem? I know we have had to grind on these calipers to clear the brackets at times.

Don't have the actual directions at home; but looking on Speedway's web sight, the inner bearing is listed as L68149 and the replacement race is listed as L68110. Neither of these are part of the A6 bearing set originally used with the GM rotor. Only way to know for sure; knock out the inner race and see what is in there.

 

Prewarcars4me, I think this is exactly what occurred. Rich B, Thank you for the part numbers! I talked with my dad a few minutes ago (he lives 400 miles away so organizing this can be a challenge) and he is gonna press in a set of the new #s and see if it solves the issue. THANK YOU!

 

I got a Speedway disc setup on a project car I bought and it had a spacer that is supposed to fit between the outer bearing and the spindle nut - only problem it created for me is that a regular dust cap isn't deep enough to fit after this was all assembled. Speedway seems to have some parts that end up being made by different vendors over time and I've seen some pretty significant changes to these parts from one vendor to the other. Pic is of the backside - I can try to get a closeup of the other side tomorrow. But since all the stuff fit on my car, it might not help. Also, my spindles are "square back" - could it be the wrong kit based on the spindle design?

 

From Mart at Ford Barn:
Re: Round Back vs Square Back Spindles There are a few differences between the early squareback and the later squareback.
1, they require a different king pin setup with the thrust bearing on top of the spindle.
2, the bolt pattern for attaching the backplates is smaller and the bolts themselves are smaller.
3, the spindle snout is longer and will not accept later hubs without a spacer.

That's why the statement was made that people "pass off" earlier ones to the unsuspecting because they are not as useful to a rodder as the later ones. (Think hydraulic conversions).

#3 seems to indicate that there are differences in the snout length - maybe this has something to do with your issue.

 

He's talking about round backs vs EARLIER spindles, not the later square backs (42-48).

 

So that's why it says "there a few differences between the early squareback and the later squareback"? The thread was about roundback, early squareback, and later squareback. And I don't know what snout dimension SuperBell used for snout length - just trying to give some possible help to the OP.

 

Don't know if this helps or not, but here's the spacer between the outer bearing and the spindle nut on my setup. Looks to be about 5/16"- 3/8" thick.

 

looking at Willys36s post on Ford Barn, there's a few different hub configurations - hubs behind drums, hubs outside drums, etc. Seems like there might be a potential for issues with which hub you've got in relation to which spindle snout length, or which length Speedway designed their hubs for.

 

When you get it figured out, please let us know what the issue was. It helps everyone learn. Good luck!

 

OK just an observation, you stated way above that if the brake pad was back like I believe 1/2 inch the claper assembly would fit. could it be, and IM not trying to be a smart ass but is the piston fully retracted in the caliper? try c-clamp and push that piston in the caliper and see if that buys you enough clearance for the caliper to fall into place.Whgat the hell give it a shot.

 

The terms here are cup and cone:

Cup:


Cone:


Races are used on ball bearings:

One outer race, shown with two ball bearings.

I am the Grandson of a New Departure Ball Bearing foreman, shop steward, and lifelong UAW member.

 

May well be; but I think the term bearing and race are used quite commonly even Timken uses the term race in their catalog.

But back to the OP's problem, after fooling around with the parts in different brake kit yesterday, while not ruling out the chance of the wrong inner cup still being in place and causing the problem; 1/2" is lot, maybe the caliper positioning or caliper brackets need further checking.

 

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Grumpy thanks I learned something.

 

The brake kit I received came with a spacer to go between the outer bearing and the castle nut. I replaced the inner cones in the GM rotors as directed and using the spacer, the castle nut would not go on far enough to install a cotter pin in the assembly. With out the spacer, things seem OK. No problems installing the calipers.
I assumed, since I have 46 square back spindles, the spacer was for round back spindles.
I don't have it on the road yet, so problems may come up later. I did find it funny, nothing was mentioned in the instructions.