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Hot Rods 276 test drive disappointment......need help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 36tudordeluxe, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Took the '36 for test drive and it stumbles during acceleration, or at rest. Compression is good at 125-140lbs, no smoke but plugs sooty. Cam is L-100 with Edelbrock 500,re-jeted to .083 mains. Mallory electronic set up by Bubba's. Have no timing marks on my crank pulley but have TDC mark for #1. Vacuum is 13-14", am told this is acceptable for this cam at idle. Other than the very rough running, car steered and stopped great, CE front & rear end kits with discs in the front, Ford 8" in the back. Any suggestions on where to begin appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  2. Who tuned it ?
    Does it do anything right running wise?
    How did you find the tdc mark
    What's the plug gap?
    Fuel pressures?
    Does your power valve match the vacuum
    Does bubba's advance pot match the vacuum

    Could be 50 or so things maybe more. Some more info will help narrow it down.
     
  3. caton462
    Joined: Jul 17, 2013
    Posts: 176

    caton462
    Member

    Is the accelerator pump squirting? Advance the timing some then test drive it again. Is the vacuum reading steady?
     
  4. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Really doesn't have a tune, set the carb. the way Edelbrock suggested, 5.5lbs. of fuel pressure and NGK plugs gapped at .025. The only thing engine does right is that it starts immediately and idles smoothly. When the engine was on the test stand for about an hour after cam break in the throttle response was excellent. I found TDC during assembly with dial indicator and both valves on the seat. The only thing I know about the power valve is that it came with the carb and how it relates to vacuum I don't know; as for Bubba not sure what he did as how it relates to vacuum either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
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  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,501

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Just for ha-ha's, double-check the plug wires versus the firing order, and that they are all seated.

    Did you set the distributor when you had the engine at TDC?
     
  6. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Will check accelerator pump, advance distributor and see what happens.
     
  7. 83's sounds like too much.
     
  8. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,322

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    As a side note that engine is a work of art. Beautiful car!
     
  9. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,021

    prpmmp
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Even though you should be able to tune in the carb I believe its to big(390 cfm). Hot Rod Mag did a carb and manifold test on several combinations and used one of H+H builds(pretty potent build 286 CI?) They used a 390 on the 4 barrel test. By the way if I remember right the eldelbrock slingshot was the all around beat street setup and the Barry Navaron(spelling) 3 deuces produced the highest horsepower just shy of 200HP! Pete
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  10. DICK SPADARO
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,887

    DICK SPADARO
    Member Emeritus

    Your comment plugs look sooty is an indication that you are too rich. This is a backyard mechanic way to test your system.. First get the engine up to operating temp and then remove the air cleaner element. There have been some issues with cheapy air cleaners that have elements that are to dense and do not flow any air. Now take your car for a test drive and check for stumble. If the stumble is not there then you should look at the filter element as the source of the issue. If the engine still stumbles my check then is to determine if it is too rich or too lean on acceleration. To check this get the engine to operating temp and then go for a test drive. Check for a stumble and then repeat test this time pulling the choke about 1/2 way on and again accelerate and check for stumble, if the engine doesnt stumble then it indicates that the air mixture or pump circuit is too lean and by shutting down the air flow you have balanced the mixture. If the engine stumbles worse then it indicates you have an excess fuel issue and you will have to rejet the carb.
     
  11. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,322

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    Dick may be on to something. I bought a reproduction Cobra dual quad breather for my 64 and the car started running rich and flooding out. I would pop the hood and take the lid off to look down the carb, crank it over and it would fire back up. Thought it was the carb forever but it finally clicked in my head what was going on. It was the cheapo filter element that was choking the engine. Ran perfect when I tried it without the breather. Put a K@N element on and problem fixed. I have also had problems using an MSD box with the wrong plug wires that made the car run crappy and die. I'm a professional Ford mechanic too. I have all the special tools that are required.....Big-Medium-and small hammers!:D
     
  12. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Thanks Tommy, now if I just could get it to run right.
     
  13. Another little thought - plug heat range correct?
     
  14. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,104

    George
    Member

    Gap should be .035 (or more for electronic), maybe try another brand.
     
  15. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Accelerator pump works, can see fuel going into the carb, lowered fuel pressure 1/2lb. less than Edelbrock says is ideal, advanced the distributor slightly and removed air cleaner but engine still stumbles & rough running. Will try as Dick suggested close choke half way tomorrow.
     
  16. DICK SPADARO
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,887

    DICK SPADARO
    Member Emeritus

    Next simple question do you have the plug wires installed correctly. Ford flathead is different than SBC numbering order so a crossed plug wire can produce the same symptom.
     
  17. turdytoo
    Joined: May 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,557

    turdytoo
    Member

    Won't ever work. Replace with SBC like everyone else. Sell motor to me for scrap. LOL.
     
  18. 1959apache
    Joined: Nov 22, 2009
    Posts: 2,628

    1959apache
    Member

    sweet mother of god.... what have you done....
     
  19. 54fierro
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 493

    54fierro
    Member
    from san diego

    I had a similar issue with the motor stumbling or falling flat on its face on acceleration, suspected accelerator pump but that worked fine. Plugs were all fuel fouled also. Turns out it was the condenser.

    I know you mentioned you had the Mallory ignition but i suspect its an electrical issue somewhere.
     
  20. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Dick, you may have hit the nail on the head.......maybe! Went to Van Pelt site and it shows #1 plug wire at top of distributor cap; I have #6 in that location and #1 where #6 should be but all the plug wires are in the correct sequence as far as firing order goes.
    Could this be a "180 degree out" problem? It idles loopy but smooth considering the cam, but sounded like a SBC rather than a flathead. Wait your opinion before I invest in a new set of wires as they're cut to fit.
     
  21. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Gimpy, I think maybe you got this right but I'm not laughing! I may be 180 degrees out.
     
  22. Before you get to the point of buying new wires, I'd guess that you should be able to re-phase the distributor 180* and see if that cures what ails you. Just give the distributor shaft a half turn but leave the housing in the same relative position it's in now.
     
  23. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Really like that idea, Clay. Thanks
     
  24. HotRodMicky
    Joined: Oct 14, 2001
    Posts: 1,756

    HotRodMicky
    Member

    It would not run with 180 degrees out
     
  25. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Won't run at all now after rotating 180°. Loud backfire.
     
  26. DICK SPADARO
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,887

    DICK SPADARO
    Member Emeritus

    Bring #1 cylinder up to TDC pop the dist cap and check the wire index. You can down load a wire firing diagram and make sure all your wires follow that outline. No, you just cant spin the rotor 180 and have it work, a flathead distributor only bolts up one way, bolt it up backwards and you will snap the mounting ear off. Remember flathead right bank (Pass) is 1234 and left bank (driver) is 5678. number 1 plug should be at bottom rear of rs dist cap contact , 5 is top front of lh dist cap, 4 plug is top rear of rs, 8 is bottom front ls,6 is bottom rear ls, 3 is top rear rh, 7 is bottom rear ls, 2 is top front rs. recheck the wires in your cap to the routing to the correct plug
     
  27. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Dick, really confused now as to plug wire to cap location. Am trying to send Van Pelt plug wire diagram.
     

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  28. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,104

    George
    Member

    As long as you have the wires/firing order is in the proper order it doesn't matter witch post you decide is #1 if the rotor is pointing to it when #1 is firing
     
  29. KoolKat-57
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 2,876

    KoolKat-57
    Member
    from Dublin, OH

    Are you running solid core wires?
    Most electronic ignition conversions will not work well with solid core wires.
    Now a stupid ?, you did clean and regap the plugs?
    Hope you find the problem, you have a beautiful car.
    KK
     
  30. Oh well... At least I might have saved you the cost of a set of plug wires. :eek:
     

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