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Projects 27 Model T Speedster build...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by pennafxu, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,142

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'da gone up and over, instead of down and under, but your way works too. See how you will get a much wider stance and much more stable for those drop-the-clutch launches? The Ford biscuits are way more firm than any Chevy mount could even hope to be.
     
    pennafxu likes this.
  2. woodbutcher
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 3,188

    woodbutcher
    Member

    :D Hi Whisky.Looking good.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
     
    pennafxu likes this.
  3. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    Thanks for the words!
     
  4. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    Yessir! Thank you...
     
  5. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    Please elaborate on "gone up and over..."
     
  6. HUGHES AUTOMOTIVE
    Joined: Jun 22, 2006
    Posts: 70

    HUGHES AUTOMOTIVE
    Member

    I just measured my 47 flathead with truck water pumps. The motor mount with is 20 inches on center. Your drawling looks great but, your unfinished part looks like it will be too narrow.
     
  7. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    I don't quite understand your point... But I'll take a guess! I'm gonna move the engine 4" less aft and the width of the frame narrows up to line up with my mounts perfectly... Was that your concern, or is there something I am missing?
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
  8. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,142

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  9. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    I thought that's what u meant... But with the stock I have I will be able to get a side brace in and clear the biscuit... Otherwise my mount hole would need to be severely offset...
     
  10. With all due respect. I'm with alchemy on this one. These water pumps are more common, and are less hardware to install. Less is good, less likely to fail.

    IMAG1532b.jpg
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  11. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    Noted guys... When these fuckers fail on me you have permission to flame the shit outta me... I have lots of cash tied up in these
     
  12. HUGHES AUTOMOTIVE
    Joined: Jun 22, 2006
    Posts: 70

    HUGHES AUTOMOTIVE
    Member

    If you were to use the water pumps that most builders use. The hole in the water pumps for the motor mount biscuit are 20 inches on center. The mount that you are building looks too narrow at this point. Narrow front mounts require additional mounts on bellhousing to control engine torque. I would make the front mount biscuits at least 20 inches on center to keep it simple.
     
  13. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    Oh ok! I understand now... so you think that my lower "tab" of the 45deg mount is not long enough... correctt?
     
  14. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,226

    manyolcars

    [QUOTE="pennafxu, post:

    Rear end still sitting a little low in my estimation... View attachment 2819362 [/QUOTE]

    I didnt want to say anything to discourage you but since you asked....Thats an awful lot of drop in the rear of your frame and its at a 90 degree. The 90 degree angle is weaker than less angle unless you add gussets. I think your car will look best when the tires fit the wheel well.
     
  15. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    I didnt want to say anything to discourage you but since you asked....Thats an awful lot of drop in the rear of your frame and its at a 90 degree. The 90 degree angle is weaker than less angle unless you add gussets. I think your car will look best when the tires fit the wheel well.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah... I'm not even close to addressing the fish plating/gusset issue... I may even go with support bracing and possibly a cage... Definitely roll bars... More to follow on that... I am going to lower the rear spring mount point by 4" and take a couple leaves out... This should gain 5" of height back there... I'm not really feeling cutting the frame up at this point... This has been an expensive lesson in "don't buy someone else's fuck up and have to fix it from scratch the right way" but hey I'm learning a lot and have great advisors!
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
  16. HUGHES AUTOMOTIVE
    Joined: Jun 22, 2006
    Posts: 70

    HUGHES AUTOMOTIVE
    Member

    You got, it the picture you drew looks great can't wait to see it in steel.
     
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  17. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1422577232.932495.jpg this is the latest rendition with all of ya'lls input
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  18. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    Thanks! me neither...
     
  19. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,142

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You don't need all that stuff in the middle of your front motor mounts. Just put the tabs on the water pumps legs and be done with it. Use the KISS method.
     
  20. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    Oh yeah KISSS... I know that! "Keep it Slick and Stylish Stupid?" I'm actually gonna tack it up and keep driving on... And go into detail after the chassis is set
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
  21. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

  22. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1423444929.762286.jpg
    Bout 4" off here... ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1423444956.348112.jpg need to lower the mount or cut some of the Z out ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1423445011.371506.jpg
     
  23. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1423670056.924864.jpg
    My thought to improve overall stance...
     
  24. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

  25. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,142

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Why go to all that work when four well-placed cuts, and two nice welds would fix the problem? Just un-Z it a bit.

    If you go lowering the spring's mounting point, but don't do the same for the upper shock mounts, you'll more than likely need longer shocks. By un-Z-ing it some you will also gain room that might be usable for a gas tank or battery.
     
    whtbaron and pennafxu like this.
  26. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    do you know I have thought that over and over... it seems the Z gives me a better body line for the boat tail... and a spot for the tank in the boat tail... these shocks are extremely long as it is and would settle with the weight also... In my eyes the work is about the same... and my other peice would add to strengthening the rear frame, which will get a lot more bracing too... Convince me man! Convince me!
     
  27. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,142

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Convince you? Do you remember the KISS method we talked about?

    When you look at other hot rods, are you impressed by complex brackets and holes all over the thing, or a car with simplicity and function so ingenious that you say "why didn't I think of that?".

    Or how about this: you spend three hours to fix a mistake with a band-aid, or one hour to fix it the right way?
     
  28. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    pennafxu
    Member
    from kentucky

    ok the first reason is so-so...
    But the second reason has merit... TBH I really wished I hadn't re-welded that fucking Z back in the first place... I love to weld though and love all types of welds and fitments... And some of these weldments are challenging... on the other hand these shocks will for sure be too long... but oh well! Secondly, will this "band aid" fail mechanically or is that your opinion as to liking simplicity?
     
  29. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,142

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It might be just fine mechanically, but it won't "look" right to me. If you like it, I guess that's all that matters.
     
  30. Tim_with_a_T
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,005

    Tim_with_a_T
    Member

    I'm with alchemy on this one. On my T, I had a really tough time with the rear suspension, much of what you're going through here. Getting my pinion angle correct, getting my ladder bars fab'd up, getting my wheelbase right, getting the ride height right, getting the shock locations right, and getting the spring perches right. It's a PITA; don't get discouraged if you have to fix a few things along the way. I believe that especially on an early Ford, simplicity is beauty. If you can take out some height in the rear crossmember by cutting out part of the Z, that would be the most tasteful. You can still add some tasteful looking gussets to your existing spring perch, but I will again reiterate what alchemy says: I think it's easier to shorten the Z. You'll probably have to cut and re-mount your ladder bars, too. That's just part of the fun! You will be so proud when it's all done. Trust me.
     

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