So over the weekend we made some more forward backwards progress. The frame sits free of gummy paint. The Engine is flying free again. and the aux trans in now in pieces on the floor. If you look closely you can see one of the lower Jack Shaft bearings didn't like having the cap that it lived in removed from the trans. The other small bearing on the other end of the lower jack shaft it still on the shaft and sorta in one piece but it has some parts of the inner race that are missing. So we ordered a couple of them and new races off the old interwebs. About $20 each not too bad. Those were the only bad bearings in the trans. which is good. The Largest bearing in the trans (the one you can't find anymore) looks good but it's race is beat up. looks like the last guy that rebuilt this trans swapped out the bearing but not the race. It would be ok but we're looking into finding a "new" race for it if we can. We also found that all of the cover plate bolt holes were stripped out. So the last re-builder ran bolts through from the inside out then used nuts to hold the plates on. That works ok but they also cracked the case on the thin side of the bolt holes when they stripped them. Thinking on Ideas to fix that. (putting the bolts back in sealing around them with RTV or cutting the crack out and welding/ brazing it up. drill re-tap holes. or a combination of the two are what we're toying with now.) We could always look for another warford and use the parts out of each one to build one good one.... but where's the fun in that We also started talking about shock placement. These are what we're going to run in the front. We're thinking about cutting the front cross member horn that bolted to the fenders off and bolting the small "pivot" to the frame and bending the nose of the long arm to bolt to the front axle. (any other good ideas will also be considered so toss em out if you got em!) In the rear we're looking to use these. Willie (the guy we got them off of) thought the were 40's dodge bros. But they look very similar to early Model A shocks (or AA). any thoughts? Right now we're thinking a plate bolted to the rear axle that the round shock body mounts to then a modified dogbone up to the ends of the rear cross member. Again any Ideas or old photos that show a better way (or vintage way) please let us know. CBB
Guys I've been watching your build and am very impressed. On you Warford when you take it apart make sure the inner bearing between the input and output shaft is good as it is irreplaceable (not made anymore and it is a odd roller bearing and race). Generally they are good as long as there has been oil or grease in the box. If there are a few dark spots on them and the race don't worry about it. Just grease the hell out of it and put it back together. My gear teeth are just as bad as yours which is caused by grinding gears when shifting and forcing it in gears. it will make a little more noise than new gears but thar is part of the fun. .Clayton and I are getting ready to put the Warford back in the Special. When dad got this Warford it was the parts one for the one in Tin Tille our 1919 touring car. When dad gave it to me the input shaft was so worn it would just turn inside the square hole in the back of the transmission. I had to get it annealed and welded the square shaft up with the TIG machine. Then I chucked it up in our milling machine and machined new flats and had it hardened again. Also some one ran the bearing retainer nut loose till it fell off and rattled on the input shaft till the threads where totally worn off. I had to build a new nut for the bearing retainer and re-machine the shaft with new threads. hope this helps a little.
So Chris your saying that pretty much every Warford out there is beat-up a little. Fix it so it works well, doesn't fall apart, or leak oil but it's allowed to have Character.... Then Run it and have fun. Ok that sounds like the plan I'm using. CBB
I would say that's about right. I don't think you'll ever find one with perfect teeth.... As Chris points out, that center bearing (between the input shaft and the output shaft/rear cluster) is no longer produced and there is no substitute that exists. If it's good, grease it well (like packing a wheel bearing) and put it back together. Make sure to seal it up good (use "The Right Stuff" from Permetex....don't bother with anything else) and use a good, heavy gear oil and keep it well lubricated! With that and proper shifting....it will last forever. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
The one in the Special makes more noise then the one in Tin Tillie. Yep character is a good thing. That bearing you'll be able to get at any decent bearing company. If it were me I would try to braze the holes up and re drill and tap them. If you were to try and weld them up you'll have to heat up the entire gear box up glowing red and then slowly cool it down after welding so it does't crack.
Chris, their Warford case is aluminum, not Cast Iron like the one in the "Special". Fixing it shouldn't be too hard. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
They lucked out and scored an aluminum case version. They could drill and tap it a little bigger or heli-coil it too me thinks... Sent from my SGH-T699 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
We worked on a few parts of the car over the weekend. Hit a couple of bumps, but it was good. A lot of the work was the boring no picture kind. Like pulling bearing races out of the caps for the Warford jack shaft. Here's hint. Use a welder put a bead around the inside of the race.. Flip over cap over and tap a bit. It will save you tons of time... We figured this out on the second cap, several hours into the task When we ordered the bearing for this shaft they came with new races. So Jim started to install them. This is what we saw. The "new" races were too small (too thin, and the outer diameter was 1/8" too small). So that put a stop to that. New proper races have been ordered, but we'll have to wait a bit to get them. So we moved back to the frame. This is the ear that held the front fender to the frame of the model T. Since we're not running with the fenders, and we need a place to mount the front friction shocks, it's gotta go. A few guide lines, a cutoff wheel and some cleanup and we have this. There are a couple holes already in the frame that are just about in the perfect spot for these Shocks. So we popped them on and took a look. This is when we figured out that we can mount the shocks to the frame, but can't make the axle mount until we get the motor back in and get the car back on the floor so we can see where the axle really sits. But it's progress! so we're good with that. We took some time to clean up some of the mess we had in the shop and to weld up a few other projects (ran out of gas for the welders a few weeks ago, just got around to getting the tans filled). Check back later for more misadventures of Jim and Bruce! CBB
Over this weekend we started working on getting the Warford back into shape. We started by getting the proper new bearing races installed in the Jack shaft caps. From there we moved onto the Cracks in the casing. On the larger crack we drilled the end of the crack. Then both cracks were veed out. The directions for the aluminum brazing rod we had said to use a propane torch. After about 20-30 mins with the torch and no luck (this casing it thick!) we broke out the "real torch" and quickly heated the area up. We had to use a copper panel tool to keep the filler in place until the gaps were full. It's not the prettiest braze but it should do the trick. The case was too hot to finish grinding off the excess or re-drilling and taping the holes. So I gave one side a quick pass on the wire wheel. We wanted to see if it cleaned up well enough to go under the car a nice bright aluminum or if it was too stained and needed to be painted black. Looks like it will be nice bright aluminum too me! I've been working on making up wiring harnesses for the car. Since we moved the body back and we're planing on running turn signals and a few extras. W can't just order a pre-made harness for the car. Before I got too much further on it I wanted to verify my lengths and routing. Here's the first (only so far) test fit of the harness. That's all we got for this installment. There's going to be bunch of small updates as we fit things on and finish up the frame. It's not going to look like much but it will eat up a bunch of time. Hopefully you'll hang in here with us through the small stuff CBB
No big updates. Only got into the shop for a couple of hours this weekend. Enough time to clean up the nasty aluminum braze job, drill out and tap the hole. Also been working on the Wire harness. But it's not very photogenic yet. Sorry no Pics... I forgot to take them I'll get a shot of the finished product next time I'm there. CBB
In 1963 I worked for an old guy in his one car garage rebuilding starters and generators. He told me that he had been a Model T racer when he was young and wild. He said he wore his hair combed straight back and if combed forward, it would hang down to his chin. Outrageous! Another old guy told me that he lived in Shreveport and drove his Model T to college in Baton Rouge, then over to Houston and back to Shreveport. Thats about 800 miles. He had a tire go bad on that trip but couldnt afford to buy a new one because a new tire cost $3.50
Last weekend we moved away from the Transmission for a bit (cold weather is fixing to head this way and we need to get some painting done!) and started on the Rear Shocks. We've decided to mount the shock body on the cross member but there is a lip on the Cross member that's in the way. How do we get around that? Break out the flame wrench and heat it up. Video With the lip cooling and straight. We cut the mounting Plate out of 1/4" steel. The Way the shock will line up on the cross member only one mount will be on the Cross member. So we made a backer plate that Bolts to the Cross member in two places and to the shock. (sorry the Camera man got distracted by something shinny and for got to get pictures of the plates after they were cut and drilled). Once the Plates were cut we lined them up on the Cross member and drilled the mounting holes... With the "Little Shop Drill" Then a little lock tight and some stainless fasteners and you have this. Do it twice and ends up sorta like...
If anyone has any Ideas on how to mount the link from the Axle to the shocks we're all ears. The easy method would be weld some triangle tabs to the axle like you see with a Model A four link. Then run a link bar up to the shock. but that doesn't have the old way look to it that we're shooting for. But we don't have the clearance between the axle and spring for a big plate and u bolts. Any thoughts? CBB
Clayton, Great Idea as always. But I don't think we have the arm to brake backing clearance to pull it off. (but we'll check to be sure). I started thinking maybe something along these lines (please note my drawing is not as pretty as yours...and I hope you can figure out the general Idea from it) With this setup I think we could hide a couple plug welds around the band to eliminate it wanting to spin around the axle tube. CBB
I can visualize exactly what you are talking about and it looks good. I was just thinking about ways to so without welding....the approch I used on my latest rebuild. It looks like you do have just barely enough room, but I can't tell without meassuring. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Hello HAMB! We had a fairly productive weekend. When last we spoke we were talking about ways to connect the rear shock arms to the axle. Well after much measuring and head scratching The only thing we could come up with (that would fit without redoing everything in the rear end) was the Axle tube Clampy-Thingys that I posted in my poorly drawn sketch. So Saturday we recruited the help of our friend Caleb and we set to work on the Clamps. We went on a field-trip to the local high school's machine shop to use their heavy duty bender. Making tight bends in 3/16 x 2" steel isn't easy to do at home. Well to make a long story short we had to make a die that was slightly smaller in diameter then the axle tubes are. Good thing Caleb use to be a machinist. He was able to make the die we needed (after we made some other tooling to be able to turn the die on the lathe... Short of it. It took longer then anyone planned) But he was able to pull it off and we could get to work Bending stuff. Thanks Caleb!!! After a few minutes bending we had a pair of rear axle clamps.... Now that's enough about the clamps. On with the big story. Caleb really came to help paint the Frame... but didn't get to. He and Jim did get the frame cleaned / de-greased before we went off to make the clamps. And while Caleb and I finished the clamps Jim treated the whole frame with Ready Prep and rinsed it thoroughly. It was still wet when we returned (oh and Late!). At this point we called it a night and let the car Dry till the next afternoon. Here it is all nice and dry and ready to be worked with. Since we don't want to have to paint this thing again we Started by Wiping everything down with lacquer thinner. Jim's grandson was there to give us a hand. After that we started by painting the whole thing with Por15. Again we had help! In the end It looked good. But Por15 doesn't stand up well to UV. So we hit the whole thing with a coat of Bed liner. After one coat We still had about half a can left so... We gave her another coat! She looks Good! Some people may notice that we have few things that need completed on the Frame before the drive line and the body go back on.... You'd be right! but we live in Ohio and it's mid November and this was a 60 degree (F) weekend. If we had any hopes of getting it painted before spring (thus the car on the road by July 4th) it was now or never! we can do touch ups where needed and paint small stuff in the house but the big things had to get done. So let us know what you Think (Jim does read this thread...just never seems to post much)... You'll see more of the Clampy-Thingys in upcoming episodes. CBB
Bravo guys..great work! I think you really came up with a great solution for the shock mounts! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
With our Tummies full of Turkey we were faced with a day off. So into the shop we went. We created some linkage to go from the axle to the Shock's lever arm. These started as the original dog bones for these shocks. We cut one end off and threaded the 1/2" rod to 1/2" by 13 tpi. While Jim was threading the rods I started drilling the bolt holes in the Axle clamps. We're running two 3/8" grade 8 bolts to supply most of the clamping force. The 1/2" rod will act as a backup. With all the holes drilled and Ros threaded we had to show you what we were thinking. We had to spread the gap open and give it a couple love taps with BARH (Big Rubber Hammer)to get the clamp on the axle. Everything else went together smoothly. Now that both are installed we'll need to spend a couple minutes with the angle grinder to clean up some of the edges. Then give them both a few coats of paint. But the paint may not be happening for a few months... With this done we're getting close to getting the body back on the car. Only a few more items left. Soon the engine will be firing! CBB
At the risk of being named a pessimist, will the mounting not be a bit rigid, with only one pivot point on the mounting? It appears to me that the axle and the shocker arm will have slightly different places to go, during their respective journeys. A pivot, on the clamp, would eliminate this problem. Am I right or am I just a 'glass half empty' guy. Love the concept for the build; that will be a ball to drive. Luvvit!
X2 on the shock mounts. Going by the good work you are doing overall it seems that the shock mounts could use a little extra engineering to match the rest of your work...
Crazybillybob, I can see what these gentleman are talking about....and I have to agree, the single pivot link arm design may put extra stress on the threaded stationary end causing bending or breakage. I think the shock arm/axle mount link arm needs a second pivot where it connects to the axle clamp. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
You might also consider changes which would help to minimize the rotational forces on the axle bracket. (Using Mr. Model T's awesome sketch above), I would modify the bottom clevis on the link arm slightly by spreading the ears further apart. (gusseting wouldn't hurt). Weld 2 tabs with holes to the axle clamp spaced outside link arm clevis ears. Connect link arm clevis ears to the axle clamp tabs using 2 shoulder bolts.
Ok Boys...We understand Our Oversight. We are reviewing Ideas on how to resolve the problem without a complete redesign of the mounts. I've got a couple. Jim's still wrapping his head around the Issue to add his insight. Don't worry we'll fix it.... But we're going to jump to the front end first. Because we can't work out the front shock mounts until we get the motor and trans back in. We can't get the motor and trans back in until we get the Front Radius rods mounted. So we're going to focus on getting the radius mounts Riveted to the frame. Hopefully we'll get some extra time to work this all out during the Holiday closures at work as weekends are kind of booked till Christmas. Thanks for the Comments...If you see anything else that looks like we dozed off while designing it PLEASE!!!! let us know. CBB
The Jalopy Journal
