The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Anderson, Aug 21, 2012.
Looking good Eric, love the firewall
yup, I love it when I see this thread pop up on my sub list, a really cool jigger!
Love seeing that Olds motor sitting proud in the frame. This thing is looking really good.
If it were me though, I'd see about splitting the difference...shortening the pitman arm a bit and also bending up the steering arm. The pitman arm just looks a touch long to my eyes.
Hey, I hate to be the guy that rains on a parade, and I have been watching your build and diggin on it so far, But I gotta say I see some serious bump steer issues in your new set up ahead. You have two absolutely non-complimentary angles going on there between the suspension movement and steering movement, and they aren't going to jibe. Kinda hard to explain, but with the pitman arm pointing up like that it makes pakaging sort of tough in that that wishbones and the drag link should form a rectangle when viewed from the side. That way as the suspension rises the wishbone and drag link are rising (or falling) on roughly the same arc and together. I see that everything is still kinda tacked together, and if you don't mind a suggestion, how about moving the steering box to the lower edge of the frame? Maybe make a cool little "mousehole" to pop it through so it looks like ya "meant to do that"... That would get you quite a bit closer to where things will be happy throughout the movement it's gonna make. Or heck, weld a flange on it like we do for Model A-'34 type arrangments with pickup boxes and pop the sector shaft through the frame just below and ahead of the wishbone mounts. Either way it'll get you closer to something that will work better.
I know what you have right now has been done time after time over the years, and seeing somewhat weird geometry on hot rod steering is kinda a common deal these days. The same answer is always "Ya,it works okay". Then twenty minutes later the same guy is asking why his car feels kinda "floaty" or "twitchy" at high speeds.... There ya go!
Just a quicky, and please don't think I'm calling you out or anything, but I found my copy of an old Pete & Jakes drawing from about 40 years ago that kinda unlocked the whole steering geometry deal for me as a kid. This is for the typical early Ford pitman pointing down kinda deal which is the opposite of what you have, but at least it gives an idea of what I'm talking about with "arcs". I can't seem to find the companion drawing that showed all of the arcs on their four bar system that ran a Mustang box with the pitman pointing up, and unfortunately that would be more relevent in this case. Maybe someone else has the other drawing on their computer and can drop it in here.
Cool man cool! Just concerned and as I said, I'm not trying to stomp on ya, just concerned...
Always lots of friendly advive here. Great reminder of steering geometry, I will be reminded of when I install my steering box. Great stuff and like the progress.
More pics! I'd love to see something from the side. Better yet, get that roller outside for some pics. It's coming out fantasticly. The bones are neat, too.
Keep it up!
Don't know what happened, but I haven't seen this build. Love how much sense of proportion you are obviously instilling in this thing. Liked the '37, sorta, but LOVE the T-shell!
Said it before and I'll say it again....
I can't believe this isn't a more popular frame/body build combo !
Looks good and it's really coming together.
I was just breezing back over the thread and saw that you were thinking about yellow.
It's your car, but my 2 cents says to go with a darker trad color...black/dark green and maybe dark tan accents?
...just how I automatically picture it finished in my imagination
That T is looking killer man, I need to get by there someday soon and see it first hand.
Good stuff! Steering is coming up soon.. "Soon" is a variable determined by schoolwork however. I talked to Brian Bass for a bit about the steering on the Texas Playboy and he told me the same thing all these illustrations are showing. I think any person trying to build an early hot rod with a non-stock steering system needs to see this kinda stuff first.
Ya, that was the balance of what I posted earlier. That is still the best illustration of how this stuff works out there.
Not to bring this thread off topic...but I never understood the mustang steering geometry, when used with split bones.
Looks like an automatic bumpsteer setup??
Can somebody explain that in greater detail, how to make that setup work OK with split bones?
I mean...I understand how Anderson's will work...because the draglink is pretty much the same length as the wishbone...and it will be parallel. They both travel at the same arc over rolls and bumps.
But with a short draglink, like what's illustrated in the diagram??? What am I missing. Is the reality much less severe than what paper makes it look??
Yeah...I've talked to a few big name, traditional builders about F1 steering...
They all said basically the same thing...
Set it up as best as you can, you'll probably be fine.
According to one builder, most people who complain about bumpsteer have never actually experienced bumpsteer...he didn't think it was a big deal
So, getting back to the Mustang style steering...there's nothing that I'm missing in that diagram.
That's a shitty setup in the diagram.
I've considered tipping up a late 30's box myself and mounting it under the frame on my A-V8 with pinched 32 rails.
With my motor and exhaust combo, the box would have to be really close to the body, requiring u-joints on the engine compartment side.
My other option is Vega cross steer up front, but I'm looking a 3 ujoint setup with a brace if I go that way. Too much ugliness I think.
Very nice indeed
Your torque tube has a rust hole in it..
Oh yea, much better on the looks of the crossmember.
really cool project!
Just read the whole thread and I'm digging where this one is headed. The addition of the second deck,inverted, really brought things together. Your quest for a color reactivated my favorite which is Washington blue with cream or white race car graphics. Whatever you chose it will be killer.
I recently came into a '23 roadster body, and have been looking closely at your build for ideas. I like a lot of what you've done, and already had the idea of using faux deuce rails, in a similar fashion to what was done to your roadster. It's always nice to see someone else struggle with problems you know you're going to face when you tackle your own project. Your attention to detail is outstanding and the rear cross-member was a perfect choice; and, I also like your crossmember better. I had thought of using, as a model, the 'The Eliminator' that Duffy Livingston campaigned against sports cars and Brock Yates bought and had restored. Even if it was a full-out race car, a roadster is a roadster, right? Keep up the good work. T's are not as common as the later years, and seeing one built gives me hope. As for steering, some early cotton pickers and combines used a type of center steering that was popular with non-cage sprint car builders in the sixties. I know Hooker Hood (from Memphis) made good use of them. That's what I'm looking for in the tractor bone-yards to make mine a cowl steering job (if I can), as I like the engine compartment left free of obstructions for motor changes and exhaust. My two cents, here, the '37 truck grill proportionally is pleasant to look at, but when you reduced the height and the proportions changed it became chunky. Perhaps if you narrowed it slightly, in a similar ratio to what was taken out vertically you might get back the 'look'.
Can't wait to see this in a couple weeks. Keep up at it!
Any plans for a roll bar?
So far this thing just screams "RACE CAR" at me...
I'm lovin' this build! I've been bangin' on my modified for what seems like forever and you're giving me inspiration to get back on it. Here's a pic of the crossmember I made up for my frame in a similar fashion.
Can't wait to see the bodywork done. Thanks for posting.
Now that Sir is a rod that rules....
Crossmember looks really good!
I wonder if you would benefit from some Ford anti-chatter rods going from the crossmember to the bellhousing? Ford had them to keep the whole driveline from moving back and forth. I dunno...
I wanna sit in it and make "vroom-vroom" noises...
Damn good idea
Check is in the mail!
I don't wear'em...
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