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Folks Of Interest 235 split manifold?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by StefanS, Sep 5, 2016.

  1. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Does anyone know if Kansas Customs is still around with maybe a new number or does anyone know of anyone that can split a factory 235 manifold? I've searched all over Maryland but I'm coming up with nothing (that includes regular welding and fab shops, not just car shops). I don't want Fentons for a couple reasons so I ONLY want to split my factory, existing manifold. Thanks all
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  2. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,606

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Maybe put an ad in the wanted ads. Hope one of the mad fabricators on here can do it for you. Not everyone can weld that old cast.
     
  3. waldo53
    Joined: Jan 26, 2010
    Posts: 862

    waldo53
    Member
    from ID

    Find an old welder, someone with gray hair and beard - he's probably done a few in his time.
     
  4. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,897

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    I'm doing 2 Chevvies & a Plymouth today - drop on over & I'll braze it up if you have it drilled ...
     

  5. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I appreciate it and I would definitely take you up on that offer but you're a little far from me lol. If I can't find anyone local, maybe I can ship it to you..?
     
  6. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,838

    mgtstumpy
    Member

  7. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

  8. R Pope
    Joined: Jan 23, 2006
    Posts: 3,309

    R Pope
    Member

    I did a few back when. I angle cut the front stub and flipped the little piece over to make a smoother bend, then welded another flange to it for the second pipe.
    Nothing snarls like a Stovebolt with twin straight pipes!
    BTW, I arc welded them, no brass.
     
  9. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I'm absolutely running straight
    I'm absolutely running straight pipes
     
  10. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,265

    Cosmo49
    Member

    Over 100k miles with a 235/Fentons, dd/only vehicle...

    Straight pipes= angry neighbors, inability to talk to passengers, inability to listen to music
    Fentons with 'x-pipe' and 30" cherry bombs= happy neighbors, passengers, music
     
  11. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,531

    aaggie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's been maybe 50 years since I did one but I think I needed a second manifold to get the other flange. I was just learning at the time but it was Arc welded with high Nickel rods and buried in a sand box to slow cool. Straight pipes lose their appeal after a few miles.
     
    belair and Atwater Mike like this.
  12. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Yeah I was thinking I'd try em out a
    I was thinking I'd try it out and throw on some Brockman steelpacks if anything
     
    Cosmo49 likes this.
  13. HUSSEY
    Joined: Feb 16, 2010
    Posts: 628

    HUSSEY
    Member

  14. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I read that thread more than once and I've watched your videos multiple times. Your car sounds killer. If I knew the "heat riser" tubes on the fentons would heat when cold out and not overheat when hot out, I'd use them and be done with it (sometimes it gets down into the single digits around here and it gets well over 90 in the summer).
     
  15. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I also thought about picking up an oxy acetylene setup and just brazing it myself but people want too much to justify the amount I'd be using it. I did read a few year old thread on here where someone used innershield e71t11 to do one and peened the hell out of as they went. I asked how it was holding up but got n response. I have that wire. What if I heated the manifold and extra outlet in the oven before I welded it, left the welder on #3 out of the 4 heat settings (old Hobart 140) and peened it as i went...that way the heat would be more evenly distributed?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  16. HUSSEY
    Joined: Feb 16, 2010
    Posts: 628

    HUSSEY
    Member

    I can't say I can comment on the e71t11 flux core. I messed around with my MIG and an old cast iron exhaust manifold and had very poor results. Even when heating with my oxy/acet rosebud I just couldn't get my weld bead to stick, it's like the weld puddle just didn't mix or form. I was told that old cast iron is really is dirty, especially exhaust manifolds. The contaminants are not just on the surface but in the metal itself which makes it difficult to weld. From my manifold split, you can see I welded the exhaust flange to the the cast iron neck, which was new. I didn't have any issues with that weld, I just cranked up my machine and used 0.035 ER70S6 wire.

    From my limited research the recommended way is to used a special high nickel electrode on a stick welder. In addition their are special techniques to welding cast iron, the heating, cooling, peening, as you noted above.

    They do make a MIG wire that is specific for welding cast iron. It's not cheap though, $85 for a 2 lb spool. One brand I've seen and heard positive results is Crown Allows 44-30.

    I work with a couple welding engineers and need to hit them up on this topic. The think is, other than splitting a manifold, which I don't know if I will ever do again, I can't see where I would ever weld cast iron again.

    My overall recommendation. Get everything fitted up and ready to go. Then, find a local welder who has experience welding cast iron and has a few sticks of the proper electrode in his inventory and pay him to do it. That was the route I was going to take util I got to talking to a guy at a welding supply shop and he encouraged me to try and braze it, which ended working.
     
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  17. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I found a shop that'll braze it for 200 or use nickle rod for 4. The guy's an old-timer and said he's done a ton of them and not one has ever come back cracked
     
  18. HUSSEY
    Joined: Feb 16, 2010
    Posts: 628

    HUSSEY
    Member

    Just to clarify, braze for $200 and nickel rod for $400??? Does he do all the fit-up? I would think 1/2 of that would be more in-line for each, probably even less. Not that I don't value a skilled welder, I most certainly do, but I would estimate 1/2 hour to braze it and probably 1 to 1-1/2 for the nickel rod. I think $100/hr would be a generous weld shop rate, even for certified welders.

    FYI...I have $210 in my oxy/acet rig which I found on CL. I bought a smaller 40 CF oxy bottle and a B size acet bottle from one guy that came on a small cart and a newer victor torch set from another guy. Of course the bottles were empty so throw in a fill I'm closer to $260. I don't use them for cutting or welding, but oxy/acet comes in handy when you want to heat and bend something or to heat rusty stuck nuts or bolts. Just a though, sometimes you can set yourself up with the tools for the cost to have it done.

    Wish you were closer, I'd braze that dude up for six pack, and I'd probably share half of it with you while doing it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
    302GMC likes this.
  19. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    If I had another option I'd be able to negotiate a bit better. I mean, Kansas Kustoms was doing it for $180 or so plus shipping so I figure it's right in line with that and its still $50 cheaper than Fentons and I know it's gonna fit right and retain my heat valve. I've been looking on craigslist for months for an oxy/acetylene setup. I found a bunch but they're 500+ with the bottles. I may be able to get a torch from harbor freight and rent the bottles but I don't think I'll use it enough to justify the cost
     
  20. James Curl
    Joined: Mar 28, 2006
    Posts: 370

    James Curl
    Member

    I split my flat head six Plymouth my self. First I looked at the various swap meet exhaust manifolds until I find one that has an outlet that I can cut off with my angle grinder and fit to my manifold. I spray paint around the new outlet.s location on the manifold so I can drill numerous holes or using a metal cutting blade in my saber saw open a hole close in shape as the inside OD of the cut off outlet. Finial fitting with a file on all surfaces. I build a holding jig out of angle iron to hold the outlet in place while welding with a high Nichol rod in the stick welder. Before welding I fire up the gas grill, open all burners and cook the manifold for about one hour before welding then bury in dry sand for 24 hours. It helps to use a torch to keep everything hot while welding. This worked for me and have done three without a failure.
     
  21. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    20160908_152745.jpg I tried welding 2 small pieces with the flux...no dice. It held pretty well 'till I pried on it with two pairs of pliers. For anyone who's used a second manifold and cut off the outlet, how did you seal it at the top of the 2nd piece? I cut mine and have it wrapping under the manifold to the back edge and there's still a huge gap at the top from where the heat riser was.
     
  22. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,897

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    $400 to split a manifold ? I'll bet the old bastard doesn't own a mirror ....
    You're kinda going about it the hard way. What you do is bore a 2'' hole in the side behind the stock outlet so it clears the hand brake & shift linkage. Then, you go to an industrial plumbing supply & ask for a (and correct me if size is wrong) 1 1/2'' schedule 40 weld - in 90 elbow. Then stop at a muffler shop & buy a pair of 2'' flanges. The blockoff plate is cut from scrap & welded at the "D" shaped passage at the rear of the heat riser, leaving it intact unless the shaft bushings are badly worn. If you took the manifold to a real welder, cleaned, set up ready to assemble, it should be less than $50.
    BTW, I've been selling 216, 235 Chev & Ply/Do 217/230 manifolds cleaned, split, & surfaced for $100 exchange.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  23. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Lol that's what I was thinking but honestly I'm good with brazing it. I think I'm going the same route as Hussey with the pipe. I wanted to use a factory outlet but it's way too big to seal up
     
  24. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    If I got fentons for the right price I'd try them but I can't pay 250 for something that "might" not work. Then on top it, the intake heat kit. I drive this car all winter long so heat is really important
     
  25. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,633

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yeah...I recall in 1957 guys used to split 'em 2 and 4; even 1 and 5. 3 and 3 seemed logical to me, but I was thinking 'performance', not 'back-rappin'.
    Chevy 6 guys were ALL about backing off in 2nd, and infuriating neighbors. "Split 'em 1 and 5, it'll rattle yer eardrums!" Right. One whole meeting of the 'Wheelin Saints' was dedicated to getting the most noise out of a 216. (Fast-movin' hot rod club'!)

    Down Lincoln St., Tootie LaHerran split his at the headpipe, poked holes in the muffler, and added a 10" 'steel-pak' to the new side. That Tootie.... :rolleyes:
     
  26. There is a pic on my bus thread about page 11

    https://www.nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1153&start=150

    I cut and hammered some 4mm plate to fill the gaps.
     
  27. 'Mo
    Joined: Sep 26, 2007
    Posts: 7,432

    'Mo
    Member

    Keep in mind that for a true "split" a partition is inserted into the manifold to separate the pipes.
    This is what gives it its distinctive sound. Otherwise, it's just dual outlets.
     
  28. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Yeah, I plan on putting a divider in there.
     
  29. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,606

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The divider in the Douglas manifold I bought in 62 was a thick walled washer. The hole in the washer helps as an H pipe I was told. It had a piece of steel round pipe about two inch. That had a flange welded to it. I'll find my receipt and post it. Mother saw the box that said split manifold. She asked, son why are you buying broken parts for that car. Puzzled I looked at her and says mother their not broken. She puts a hand on her hip and points out it says Douglas split manifold.!!!!!!!
     
  30. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Is this too big of a gap to be brazed? I can't cut it any closer or the exhaust flange will be overlapping the back of the runner. 20160915_104139.jpg
     

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