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Projects '23 Model T Gow Job - AKA: Sand Creek Special

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by guitarguy, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 535

    guitarguy
    Member

    Been trying to continue tackling the lower panel install. It has been quite the challenge mating new metal to rusty old pitted, and in many spots very thin metal. And at the same time as all that, also dealing with many bumps and bruises this body has received over its lifetime.

    As I have said, I am no body guy, but I've been paying attention. Matt @IronTrap has put many trick and tips in his videos and they have helped. I have been having some good luck letting some of my welds in certain areas shrinking the original dented metal back into a reasonable shape. Other areas using a body hammer and dolly to stretch the weld and surrounding metal back out.

    So I went out over the course a several hours today and worked at it some more. I'm getting there. This won't be a completely metal finished car with an invisible repair. Yes, the bullet holes are staying, I did weld the crack above them after drilling holes on each end. I will grind the weld down, whether I leave the visible repair line or smooth it over remains to be seen. To take care of the massive pitting over the entire body is going to be alot of work. I may take care of most of it. For the sake of accuracy, if this repair was done way back when, I get the feeling in true low buck fashion, it would be a ground weld left with minor dents and called good enough and painted over...........What do you all think?


    Speedster project 358.1.jpg
     
  2. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 3,109

    dumprat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from b.c.

    Ever tried lead? If it was an old repair it would have been leaded over. Or even just braised and left as you are doing.
     
  3. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 535

    guitarguy
    Member

    No, I have never tried lead. If you recall some pics a bit back, when I was grinding back the intended repair area, I did uncover an old lead repair---Which was on top of the pitted metal. So that would be a logical repair too.

    I thought about TIG brazing it just to be proper, but am aware of the fact you can't really weld on a braze, and with the TIG, it's easy enough to dial back the heat to do a real weld. I am set at 25 amps, and I can tell you once I get a puddle, I back off the pedal some....It is really thin on the original stuff at the seam.

    It's hard to decide at this point. I have seen enough photos of the period to determine that quite often things were left as the were and painted over, dents, repairs and all. I don't want to make it totally shitty though either----just perfectly shitty.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
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  4. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 535

    guitarguy
    Member

    Finally done. It has been a long tedious process welding this panel in, dealing with the major dents and ripples right on the seam of the body and repair panel. I'm learning as I go. I don't think there would be anyway possible to do this with a MIG welder. I have TIG welder turn down to 25 amps and I am still only partly on the pedal once I get a flow established. The body is super thin in spots. I have about 12-13 hours into getting this panel on over three days....Again, I'm a major novice at exterior sheetmetal work.

    So now on to making it look a little prettier. Ive done some shrinking and stretching with the hammer and dolly and using some heat and quenching---or not, depending. Its interesting to see what the metal does moving it around.

    Here it is all welded in:

    Speedster project 359.1.jpg
     
  5. Looking Good!!
     
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  6. xix32
    Joined: Jun 12, 2008
    Posts: 523

    xix32
    Member

    Every lead job I ever did came back to haunt me years later, when the acid that was used to tin the metal started to corrode under the finish paint job. Even though I carefully attempted to neutralize it, using both of the published solutions to scrub it with.
    So, I would get it as flat as you can, then rough it up and etch it, then apply some body puddy to finish it with. You can then allow some traditional perfectionist to undo it some time in the future.
    The only reason I see for using lead in the early years, was because plastic body puddy wasn't invented yet.
     
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  7. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 2,565

    rusty valley
    Member

    I've done a couple T's, going off memory now, but isn't that bottom line of the patch supposed to be straight? I believe the wood sill is straight in that area , no?
     
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  8. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 535

    guitarguy
    Member

    Is it? Who knows. I was actually having this discussion with a friend of mine tonight, His T appears to be the same as mine---but his is also not perfect either, and in need of the same patches. To much of mine was gone to determine.

    Also look back a page to the pic with the bad area cut out, the sill is not straight across. Also, as I mentioned to him, looking at a T body from a top view, it is constantly narrowing towards the front. The inner part of the wood sill is indeed flat and straight. The taper is in the outer wood piece screwed to the inner piece. Im not saying I am correct, and these are hand formed panels laid on top of another body that was used for reference to make. I don't know if they are 100% correct, and it's not a factory OE restoration.

    That all said, the bottom flange curved as it is, bends over the bottom of the sill plenty enough to be secured, and more importantly, the body panel is solid again. Correct though?, I don't know.
     
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  9. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 2,565

    rusty valley
    Member

    I have 3 roadster bodies in the barn, I'll have a look tomorrow
     
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  10. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 2,565

    rusty valley
    Member

    Well, I got some pics today, sadly not so good as I am hobbling on crutches with broken leg. so, the black 23 body is as i say, straight on the bottom so that from the rear portion that lines up with the sides below the turtle deck is straight on the very bottom where the nails attach the skin on the bottom. same on the primer 14 body, and the third body is too far into uncrutch territory for me to navigate. the better story is the wood sill pic. this is an original 24 sill, and see that the rear wood lines up with the center wood (seat and back rest area) and where the screw driver is sitting I believe a part is missing that would make the whole bottom straight. note the groove and screws sticking out that would mount the missing piece. I also have some wood plans here i could double check, but did not get them dug out to day. Not trying to criticize your work, just trying to help if I can IMG_0835.JPG IMG_0836.JPG IMG_0837.JPG
     
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  11. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 535

    guitarguy
    Member

    OH no, your fine. I appreciate any input. I see what your mean. That's kind of what my friend and I were wondering. My sill was more complete than yours, so you can see all the pieces and shape missing on yours a few pics back.

    I don't know what I can or could do, because the panel seemed to fit pretty good before I cut out the old stuff. I think a little slice on the lip and some more shaping on the body line may have done what your showing. Honestly, I am not that concerned about it, as I said it is not a resto or higher end car, I'm just glad I could get my hands on these panels. I can not understand why they make the ones for the two year only '26-'27 bodies, but not for the more common '25 and earlier bodies. I think the only real concern I may have is what the back panel will fit like down in the repair area. That will have to wait for a bit though. I will run with what I have, at least it's solid now.

    He is a pic of the other panel mocked on the car he patterned off of:

    Speedster project 331.1.JPG
     
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  12. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,298

    Barrelnose pickup
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    5D4A5D94-27E3-4A68-8F20-661C30E2F294.jpeg Loving your build, I don’t know if the 26/27 bodies are any different but as there was nothing left of the bottom of mine I made replacements the same as your mate, still turned out alright imho as would yours.
     
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  13. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 535

    guitarguy
    Member

    Nice Job! Yes, As I mentioned above, the '26-27 cars are different by alot in that area. Trust me, we made sure of that first.
    Thank You for following the ride. It's slow going, but I'm picking away at it.

    I appreciate everyones input, good or bad. Unless your going to be your own panel maker, you have to work with whats given to you. I can't make panels like that, so I am working with what was made for me. They are very nice panels, even if not exact. I am happy so far with how this is going. I knew right from the beginning I wasn't trying to own a museum or concours piece. Down and dirty and a little rough is how I ride. See my sig pic if you have any questions.
     
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  14. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,211

    Outback
    Member
    from NE Vic

    Great to see movement here!
     
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  15. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 535

    guitarguy
    Member

    Had a rare opportunity to be able to pick up a new set of Rocky Mountian brakes. This is one of the last big dollar purchases I needed to make---as far as I know anyhow. For those unfamiliar with them, they are an outside band brake that goes around the outside of the rear drums, and are mechanically actuated. They don't work well in reverse or in the rain....I don't see either of those being an issue. Seems like I barely drive my cars as it is. @David Mazza thinks that adjusting the parking brake properly will help on the reverse or hill holding ability, and it seems logical. So for sake of period correctness, I bought a set. Kind of needed some kind of braking after all.

    Speedster project 360.1.jpg
     
  16. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,211

    Outback
    Member
    from NE Vic

    Awesome, nice work! The details make all the difference!
     
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  17. Lil'Alb
    Joined: Sep 22, 2013
    Posts: 230

    Lil'Alb
    Member
    from brier, wa

    This roadster deserves a best improved from humblest beginnings award! Great work
     
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  18. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 535

    guitarguy
    Member

    Thank You. I really appreciate it. I have taken a little break from the roadster, been playing with guitars lately.

    Plus I hate being outside in the heat any how, as well as general life happening, side work, minor unexpected wellness issues, and more side work always seem to get in the way---day job has kept me really busy too. I will get back on this, it is not forgotten, it will just take me a bit, I need to clear some things off my plate first.
     
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  19. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 12,670

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Cool project I’ll have to head back to page one and get caught up!
     
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