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Technical 22mm ID bead roller dies

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Rehpotsirhcj, May 18, 2019.

  1. Rehpotsirhcj
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 1,180

    Rehpotsirhcj
    Member

    Hi guys.
    A couple of questions for the metalshapers. I have a low end bead roller with the 22mm shaft. It has a few dies, but these are more or less worthless for recreating the various body beads of a 30-31 Model A.
    For starters I'd like to create the simple (I think 3/4") bead in the quarter panel.
    I can't find dies any larger than 1/2" for this shaft size.

    Does anyone have a source for 22mm shaft dies? Or better, have experience in matching
    Model A beads?
    Thanks in advance
    -Chris
     
  2. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,694

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    From what little understand of bead roller dies, you will probably need to make your own pair.
    I believe this done by first making an internal and external sheet metal gauges of the bead shape that you desire.
    You will then proceed to making or getting made a pair of rollers to do the job.
    I am sure there a roller pairs for sale that maybe close, but I don't think I'd be buying them sight unseen.
    That is the best I can do for you, best of luck.
     
    Rehpotsirhcj likes this.
  3. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 65

    cjtwigt
    Member

    Hi Chris,

    I had the same problem with my 1940 Ford. I decided to sacrifice a pair of (new) dies since I do not expect to use the bead roller that often. I machined them in a small lathe (Emco Compact 5). The dies are hardened steel but the lathe managed to take off 0.2mm every run.
    After all, what good are dies that have a shape that you don’t need?
    Of course this approach only works if you have a die that is wide enough. You can make a die make a deeper bead by machining it but you can’t always change a die make a wider bead.

    Maybe if you do not have a lathe you can make a profile or design like fiftyv8 suggests and then have them made and hardened.
    I think it should not be that expensive. Then again it is always better to spend the money on re-usable, flexible tools (a good lathe in this case).

    Regards,
    Chris


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Rehpotsirhcj likes this.
  4. Rich S.
    Joined: Jul 22, 2016
    Posts: 275

    Rich S.

    Lazze Metal Shaping sells some Ford bead roller dies.
    His are a metric shaft. And Milter Brothers now sells his dies with the standard shaft.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  5. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 1,272

    RMONTY
    Member

    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  6. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,435

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

  7. Rehpotsirhcj
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 1,180

    Rehpotsirhcj
    Member

    Thanks a bunch for the replies.
    fiftyv8 and cjwigt, I think your right that I'll need to make own dies. I was hoping that wasn't the case, but I guess it's a good excuse to tool up and learn to use a lathe. I've always been a bit envious of those skills anyway.

    Couple notes in case it helps others: 1. at least in my area, the cost of a machine shop setting up to make these is actually pretty high. Sign of the times maybe.
    2. RMONTY, thank you for the link, but unfortunately Hoosier Profiles no longer makes custom sets, not profitable.
    3. Rich S and big deuce, Lazze makes a great variety of dies, but his ford dies appear to be 33-34, and the smaller metric size, 20mm would need to be cut to fit the low end roller 22mm shaft.
    I did run across a 22mm adaptor for "pexto" style rounding over dies:
    https://www.trick-tools.com/tools/Die-Adapter
    But, I don't know what the hell pexto is or a rounding over die.

    So, for the moment it's probably best that I keep what money I have in my pocket until I find a good deal on a lathe.

    Thanks again for all the leads and suggestions, super helpful.

    -Chris
     
  8. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,694

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Good idea as some of these dies cost real money...
     
  9. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 128

    Ericnova72
    Member

    Pexto and Covell are a couple of the brand names of old school bead rolling and metal forming machinery. High quality machinery used most commonly in the Aircraft industry..
     
  10. Stooge
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 272

    Stooge
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Seems like most of the over seas bead rolls are 22mm, and Eastwood has been coming out with a nicer, more useful sets for their 22mm shaft bead rollers, but I haven't seen any 3/4 die ones. A thought I had before, but I haven't tried it since they aren't cheap and I just haven't had the need, was depending on what the hardness rating of the higher end die sets, could it be more efficient to open up the inner diameter from 3/4" 19mm that companies like Mittler Bros use, to 22mm. it would open up a lot of options or could just cause a lot of drill press chatter and worn out drill bits
     
  11. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,059

    oj
    Member

    The larger die will need a more substantial frame to drive the shape into the metal. Most metalshapers would tool up a machine called a 'Pullmax' (theres others as well) to do a 3/4" bead or a beltline bead. I have a very substantial & powerful beadroller and I doubt it'd do 3/4" bead, at least not in 18ga.
     
  12. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 813

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've found it easier and quicker to change the die ID, either by boring or bushing, than to completely make a die set. And I have a nice lathe. The OD shape and quality of the dies are what make a nice imprint. As to strength of a roller setup, most of the entry level ones can be reinforced in a number of ways to stiffen them up. I started with a cheap import, added a 1/2" stiffener plate and a 6 RPM rotisserie motor that I wired for forward and reverse.
    roller1.jpg
    roller2.jpg
     
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  13. Rehpotsirhcj
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 1,180

    Rehpotsirhcj
    Member

    That looks like a nice setup Jim
     

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