Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical 215 buick into a model '29 model a pickup

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by f'n newbie, Oct 11, 2016.

  1. f'n newbie
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 32

    f'n newbie
    Member
    from colorado

    I know its been done, but has anyone here done it? Im looking for pictures of how it was mounted, steering setups, exhaust and what transmission and water pumps people have used. Ive heard about the 300 buick water pump but would like to know if anyone has measurements on its length. thank you in advance for any info or tips on my project!
     
  2. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,175

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    The 215 and later 300 share a lot of general dimensions, yet are very different in some ways. One of the ways they differ significantly is the bellhousing bolt pattern. It is unique to the 215 BOP V8 and the first generation 196" (or 198", always get that confused) Buick V6.

    In 1964 models, when the 300 V8 was introduced, it and the now 225" V6 used what has become known as the BOP bolt pattern. What all the means is, that if using only stock parts, your choice of automatic trans is limited to the OEM 2 speed automatic or the harder to find stick shift setup. I believe there are adapters out there to use later GM parts on the 215.

    Motor mounts are front/side location. A good spot for your frame. The oil pump is at the right front corner and the filter, not so much the pump itself, can be a problem in many chassis. There are filter relocating adapters that can be used to get around that.

    While I always admired the 215 V8, over the years I have come to think there are better choices for a smallish engine compartment. There are a plethora of V6 engines that have more cubes/hp and are shorter in length.

    Ray
     
    AV8 Dave likes this.
  3. f'n newbie
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 32

    f'n newbie
    Member
    from colorado

    I got the motor for free and thought it would be cool to do something different (plus I like doing things the hard way!)I already knew about the bellhousing pattern being all by its self. I checked into that and can get a adapter to a chevy trans from kennedy. I have looked at the D&D website since everything I have researched said they are the go to people. I heard that you can use the water pump off of the 300 and it is shorter, Im trying to find out the length of said water pump. I would love to see pictures of one in an actual model a so I can visualize how they did it. There is a member on here that did the same set up in his '29 pickup that I messaged but havent heard back from yet.
     
  4. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,614

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Do you want measurements of the 300 water pump, or the engine? I have a pair of the engines, but the only part I have for a 300 is a crankshaft.

    There were two versions of bellhousing for the 215. One was for the three-speed only, and the other was a dual-parrten that either a three speed or wider pattern four speed could bolt to. Here's the dual pattern version.

    [​IMG]
     
    LOU WELLS likes this.

  5. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,768

    belair
    Member

    That free engine may cost you a fortune. Like I tell folks-"there's no such thing as a free puppy."
     
  6. f'n newbie
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 32

    f'n newbie
    Member
    from colorado

    Im looking for just the water pump length, as the motor sits now with the pump that is on it total overall length is 29" Im hoping the 300 pump will knock off an inch or two. Im also switching to an chevy auto trans (with a kennedy adapter) instead of a stick so I can have more room for my fat feet!
     
  7. f'n newbie
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 32

    f'n newbie
    Member
    from colorado

    true, but like I said I like that it is different and I like to do things the hard way!
     
    DamianD likes this.
  8. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,499

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Being as GM sold the patterns to Rover, you might find a source of parts in the Rover section of your local version of Pik-n-pull.
     
    bengeltiger, kiwijeff and Hnstray like this.
  9. there is a model a pickup with a 215 for sale on" bring a trailer" right now
     
  10. mineseats9
    Joined: Apr 10, 2005
    Posts: 72

    mineseats9
    Member
    from Omaha

    I just measured the water pump on my '64 300 it is 3 5/8" from the back of the water pump to the pulley mount surface, if that makes sense.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. mineseats9
    Joined: Apr 10, 2005
    Posts: 72

    mineseats9
    Member
    from Omaha

    Just found a 215 Buick water pump in the pile, it's 4 1/4' from the back side of the pump to the pulley mount surface.
     
  12. dualquads
    Joined: Apr 9, 2012
    Posts: 80

    dualquads
    Member

    rover used many different designs of pump over the years, most later ones were longer because of the tendency to use clutch fans, I believe the models from the sixties may have been shortest but I'm just guessing, I know having spent until 2 years ago in car parts that anything before probably the 90s haven't been reproduced for many years, got to be a rover or landrover specialist somewhere in the states ?

    Kev
     
  13. desotot
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,879

    desotot
    Member

    I have a friend with a 29 A 2dr with a 215 buick with an automatic trans 2x2 intake and lakes style headers. I'll try to get some pics this weekend .
     
  14. Dave Ackelson
    Joined: Mar 6, 2016
    Posts: 5

    Dave Ackelson

    Newbie,
    I am doing a similar build for a 28 woody with a 215 that was built for a 1997 Hot Rod magazine article. I love these engines having had a 62 olds and 63 buick. I would contact Mark at D&D. He has all the engine parts you will need and tons of knowledge on the 215 and interchangeable parts. I bought a t10 top loader from him with S10 tail shaft so the shifter location works for this model A. He has a short water pump and pulley plus oil filter adapters if you need to relocate it. I think their web site is aluminumv8.com or something similar.
    Dave
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  15. Dave Ackelson
    Joined: Mar 6, 2016
    Posts: 5

    Dave Ackelson

    I installed the short water pump and I believe it only saves about 7/8 of an inch, but I'm not at my shop to measure till Wednesday. I have a recessed firewall and still may have to modify it. The 215 is looong.
    Dave
     
  16. Dave Ackelson
    Joined: Mar 6, 2016
    Posts: 5

    Dave Ackelson

    Also, I see you were aski,g about exhaust and steeri,g. I have block hugger headers that I got from D&D. Am using an old style Vega steering box in my chassis.
    Dave
     
  17. jimbousman
    Joined: Jul 24, 2008
    Posts: 547

    jimbousman
    Member

    2016-10-04 15.49.10.jpg 2016-10-04 13.49.53.jpg 2016-10-04 15.47.48.jpg I'm building a Model A coupe. I was going to rebuild an old 283 in the shop but it turned out to be a real boat anchor. Not much usable beyond the bare block. Then this 215 Buick V8 came up on a hot rod parts blog and I snapped it up.
    I am using a 300 water pump and plan to use an electric fan. With this combo I did not have to recess the firewall. I just had to modify the very bottom to clear one of the valve covers. Good news also is the stock oil filter still fits. Most installs with this motor require a remote filter.
    As you can see in the photos I am using rack and pinion steering so the steering shafts are pretty much standard hot rod issue.
    The guy bought all of the parts and did all of the machine work and had everything balanced 20 years ago and then it sat in pieces. He was building a kit car.
    I bought it for about half of what he had in it. It's a 1963 Buick 215. It has a Kenne Bell 3/4 street cam, 300 aluminum heads, Mallory NOS black cap dual point, Melling HOP oil pump, 300 short water pump, stock four barrel manifold, (for now I plan to run a little square bore Qjet) I added Rover cast iron four-into-two headers. It will be backed up by a T5 five speed stick with a D&D bell housing and hydraulic clutch. 3:33 Jag rear end with inboard brakes brings p the rear. Stock it puts out 200 HP. Might get a few more horses with the cam and headers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  18. f'n newbie
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 32

    f'n newbie
    Member
    from colorado

    looking good! is there any way you could send me some more pictures of your progress? like maybe the motor sitting in relation to the firewall and the radiator? right now it looks like i have to recess my firewall 1 inch to clear the motor with about 1/2" clearance at water pump and radiator. also can you snap some pictures of your pulleys? mine had the serpentine belt since its a rover motor, but i want to switch it over.
     
  19. jimbousman
    Joined: Jul 24, 2008
    Posts: 547

    jimbousman
    Member

    Body is off for the winter but somewhere I have photos of my mock-up engine before I pulled the body. I'll try to find them. I did not have to recess the firewall. I merely had to recess to area below the foot well to clear the right valve cover. Yes, using the shorter 300 water pump gives me about 1/2 to 3/4" clearance with the radiator. Plan to use electric fan
     
  20. f'n newbie
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 32

    f'n newbie
    Member
    from colorado

    with the water pump that close to the radiator how are you going to get an electric fan to fit? are you using 2 smaller fans?
     
  21. jimbousman
    Joined: Jul 24, 2008
    Posts: 547

    jimbousman
    Member

    As it stands right now my water pump is pointing to the lower half of the radiator. This will allow the fan to mount above the water pump in the upper half of the radiator.
     
    DamianD likes this.
  22. Beau
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 1,883

    Beau
    Member

    I have an Olds in my Model A.
     
  23. Also I think known as the Rover V8 in England I put one in my 23 T roadster over there (I'm from England originally) it's quite a common motor to use in rods over there as they're cheap and readily available, and pack enough punch for a small light HotRod

    IMG_0134.PNG

    Charlie
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  24. f'n newbie
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 32

    f'n newbie
    Member
    from colorado

    i think ive got it pretty much setting where i want it, but im considering dropping the whole thing down another inch thumbnail_IMG_6236.jpg
     
    DamianD and kidcampbell71 like this.
  25. f'n newbie
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 32

    f'n newbie
    Member
    from colorado

    do you know what year rover the exhaust manifolds came from? ive tried a few and havent had any luck getting them to clear the frame on the passenger side
     
  26. jimbousman
    Joined: Jul 24, 2008
    Posts: 547

    jimbousman
    Member

    image.jpeg
    I had the same problem with the right side exhaust so i bought two left side manufolds from a 1991 LAND RANGE ROVER 341 V8 OR DISCOVERY II.
     

    Attached Files:

    kidcampbell71 and f'n newbie like this.
  27. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,180

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    I believe that this engine was also used on the non-US MGE. The MGE was a MGB with the V8. But were only sold in Europe.
    Another transmission that might fit is the ROTO 5 hydramatic, which was used in 61-63 Olds F-85s.
     
  28. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,941

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    The Rover V8, as they are down here, were very popular swaps in the UK. Pops or Anglia loved them due to compact size. I suspect UK members would be better informed that me. There is UK hot rod site that may assist. Rovers had 3sp autos behind them which I believe were Borg Warner 66s?

    A friend had a warmed up Rover with an Australian Dellow brand kit to allow a GM automatic transmission. Here is the kit with a 700R, too much auto IMHO, a 200R would be better as smaller and less reciprocating mass. Later 3.5lt Rover V8s (3 speed) used a GM 180 auto
    http://www.p6club.com/content/borg-warner-automatic-gearbox
    http://www.britishv8.org/British-V8-Current-Issue.htm

    6861i97_20.jpeg 5251min_20.jpeg
    IMG_6007.jpg
     
  29. As said I'm from England originally and your right on the money, borg warner 65's and 66's were common transmissions to use though the 66's were harder to find, www.NSRA.org.uk/newforum forums will have lots of rod build threads with that motor in them
     
  30. jimbousman
    Joined: Jul 24, 2008
    Posts: 547

    jimbousman
    Member

    Been a while since anon added to this blog. Thought I would send an update on my "A" coupe project. Had a few distractions this year but back on the project. IMG_4617.JPG IMG_4618.jpg
     
    DamianD and kidcampbell71 like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.