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21 Stud Flathead ???

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sauces62, Jun 26, 2008.

  1. sauces62
    Joined: May 20, 2008
    Posts: 365

    sauces62
    Member
    from n.cal

    Im new to the flat seen so go easy. Im building a 36 ford pickup and I wanted the flathead mainly for the look"BAD ASS".. A fellow hamber told me about a guy near here had a couple. Well I jumped on it. I picked up a 21 stud,aluminum heads,alum. intake..and a 59ab. Cast. the 21 studs water pumps are on the heads which i kinda thinks cool but my question is... is it worth rebuilding and can I find hop up parts. 59's and 8's are all over but I cant seem to find 21 stuff. Should i just build the 59
     
  2. jetmek
    Joined: Jan 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,847

    jetmek
    Member

    sell the early engine to a restorer
     
  3. Dale Fairfax
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,586

    Dale Fairfax
    Member Emeritus

    Unless you're REALLY dedicated to originality (And it hardly sounds that way) don't bother persuing that early style 21 studder. You've already found that there's not much available (although intakes and headers fit everything from '32-'48) for one. You might find a set of heads but they'd likely be for the '37 engine which had the pumps in the block. In addition, you'd be starting at only 221" vs. 239" in the 59A. By 1948, the hodrodders had pretty much abandoned the old motors


     
  4. Good advice...not much available for a 21 stud....
     
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  5. jonnyzepp
    Joined: Sep 8, 2006
    Posts: 124

    jonnyzepp
    Member

    I went through this same exploration last year before deciding on a 59AB for my 37 Ford slantback. You will find more speed stuff available for them and you should be able to get more horsepower out of it. Let a restorer buy the 21 stud. I traded mine for a good 59AB block. Building a flathead isn't cheap and building a 21 stud would be more expensive due to less available parts. Do a 59AB, I think you'll be a lot happier in the end.
     
  6. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,642

    Roothawg
    Member

    I'm building a 21 stud, but I have all of it already. Aluminum heads, 3 97's on an old aluminum intake. But I am hard headed most of the time.

    If you use the logic that better engines are available, then the flathead is obsolete. Just my .02.
     
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  7. 34FordConv
    Joined: Oct 31, 2007
    Posts: 185

    34FordConv
    Member


    I agree ... I have a 21 stud as well ... Dresses up OK and I like it... only running 2 97's though :)
     
  8. weemark
    Joined: Sep 1, 2002
    Posts: 800

    weemark
    Member
    from scotland

    get a 59AB and you too could have one like this :D

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,668

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All flatheads are for crazy people. Early flatheads are for extremely crazy people. How crazy are you? That's the issue. Everything becomes harder and more expensive as you move back, and the learning curve is steeper. Your finned aluminum heads will cost several times what 59 ones would cost, lower end will eat extra money, and your displacement will be limited to about 255, the starting point for most other flaheaders... but it can all be done if you are crazy enough and willing to give up food and children to pay for it all.
    I have carefully avoided owning any flatheads earlier than the '32 one I have. Don't want people tp think I'm crazy...
     
  10. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,642

    Roothawg
    Member

    Too late Bruce.
     
  11. wheelkid
    Joined: May 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,186

    wheelkid
    Alliance Vendor
    from Fresno, CA

    If it's a late 36 the with insert bearings the restorers would really like it
    Jimmy
     
  12. Von Dago
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 504

    Von Dago
    Member
    from New Jersey

    Bruce is right. You have to be a little crazy.

    I have Eddie Meyer 21 stud heads and an intake. Either I paid too much or too soon, but I have them. Someday going in my '33 wagon.

    "I've always been crazy, but it keeps me from going insane" Waylon Jennings.
     
  13. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,668

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've got some Evans earlies for the '32 motor
     
  14. In 1954, I bought a '34 5-window, with a 21 stud in it. I went to the local speed shop (I lived in SoCal); and asked what was available for that engine. I was told, "Kid! Get your boney ass otta here! We don't have anything for that piece of crap! They're only good for boat anchors!" I guess that's why 21 studs are so scarce these days. Huh?:eek:
     
  15. Von Dago
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 504

    Von Dago
    Member
    from New Jersey

    If you can find a copy of "The Complete Ford Flathead V8 Engine Manual" by Ron Ceridono, one of the chapters explains how to build a big 21 stud engine.
    But, like Bruce says, it would be more expensive.
    But I think it's a good book to have, and there are others, that cover Flatheads.

    And Bruce is extra crazy, since he has a '32 motor. LOL
     
  16. Rich Wright
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,922

    Rich Wright

    There are two 21 stud engines here in Northern Nevada for sale, if ya want 'em.... Ones a '34 and the other is a '37. Both are supposed to be runners. about 75.00 bucks each will take 'em home.

    I have a few 59a's and one 8ba that is almost finished (and I'm almost broke!).
    I prefer these to the earlier engines.
     
  17. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,668

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very general groupings of 21's: '32-36 small crank/poured main engines, '35-36 bigger crank insert main engines, and '37-38 which is very similar to the last but can be built with either block pumps or pumps in head so it looks like early engines.
    Plenty more variations, but those are reasonable groupings. The '37 type was built until about '55 in England.
     
  18. oldspeed
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 894

    oldspeed
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    I agree that you have to be crazy to build a 21 stud motor, but if you are like me and like cool old shit, it puts a smile on my face when they run. Besides how cool are those little pumps in the head. The problem is as much as we are into changing things (hot rods) we still like some forms of originality (traditional hot rods), since I have a good running but smoking 36 in my 36, it's going to stay as long as it can. I am sure or least I hope to live long enough to regret that, but hey I'm crazy and stubborn.
     
  19. sauces62
    Joined: May 20, 2008
    Posts: 365

    sauces62
    Member
    from n.cal

    Thanks for all the advice. I guess Im crazy. Thats what my girl tells me. From looking at the motor is there a way to tell what year it is. Im having it dunked and cleaned up as we speak so it should be finished today
     
  20. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,668

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Pics of bottom and front of block will roughly date it.
     
  21. sauces62
    Joined: May 20, 2008
    Posts: 365

    sauces62
    Member
    from n.cal

    I will take a few pics and post them tonight
     
  22. samsonized
    Joined: Dec 20, 2007
    Posts: 256

    samsonized
    Member

    i am building two 21 stud motors one for a 33 phaeton and one for a 35 cabriolet. does anyone know where i can get some aluminum heads for either one
     
  23. samsonized
    Joined: Dec 20, 2007
    Posts: 256

    samsonized
    Member

  24. Saxon
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,154

    Saxon
    Member
    from MN

    21s are great, but yes they are expensive, heads alone are 1000, and not a huge amount of options. if you have a 59a as a choice that's the one to go with. But if you want to use the 21, do it man!

    Here's my somewhat stock 21
     
  25. sauces62
    Joined: May 20, 2008
    Posts: 365

    sauces62
    Member
    from n.cal

    I changed direction and picked up a 52 flathead
     
  26. The English 21 stud engines were different again. Made for the Ford Pilot car and Thames truck, they look like a 37, but they have a forged steel crank, beefed up webbing, nice cast exhaust manifolds, and I've seen 'em with factory relief.
     
  27. I'm Tooratly
    Joined: Apr 28, 2007
    Posts: 19

    I'm Tooratly
    Member

    99% of all these crazy flathead lovers will tell you to use the later motor. I'm an avid fan of the early 21 stud motor with the pumps in the head. In my opinion, the prewar metal is superior, and the lighter reciprocating mass makes for a revvier engine than the bigger cousins. I don't care how much money I spend on cool bits for my favorite engine. Stuff is available for all flatheads, sure, the earlier stuff is pricier, but its still out there. Incidently, the sickest flathead lovers are those that just hoard engines and parts.
     
  28. Cyclone Kevin
    Joined: Apr 15, 2002
    Posts: 3,879

    Cyclone Kevin
    Alliance Vendor

    Well, this is the best marketing tool around=Lol! We made both versions of the 21 stud head and I have partial tooling to do it again as well as one of our competitors. If there isn't a market for it, just let me know guys, you'll be saving me alot of dough.=Lol!
     

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