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Hot Rods 2004r trans in a 1940 ford

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by okiedokie, Mar 18, 2015.

  1. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    100_9024.JPG View attachment 2861674 Once I decided that I would not be happy with a 350Th trans in my 40 sedan build I began to research using an od. The 700R4 requires a good deal of mods and looked to me to pretty well eliminate using an axle with wishbones. Since I want to use a dropped axle I found a post by "fat39" where he accomplished it on his 39 by using a four bar instead of wishbones. It was his pictures of his mods that gave me the motivation to see what I could do. Unfortunately the four bar will not work with the SoCal axle that I have as it is 34" ctr to ctr at the perch pins. So now I will try to figure out how to use the split wishbones I have. Here is a picture of what trimming is necessary to fit the trans in the X member.
     
  2. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 2,998

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Hey Okiedokie that pattern is a good idea. Thanks for starting the thread. I am also interested in whether or not you have to modify the floor for this install.
     
    40fordtudor and i.rant like this.
  3. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
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    from Ok

    So, as you can see from the pictures, this eliminates the normal placement of the split wishbones. As this picture shows, once the wishbone is moved out far enough [ note the one on the left] to not interfere with the trans pan it looks like x member leg interference will become a problem. I have seen some wishbones in the past that appear to have been "piecut" that results in a bend. That would allow clearance under the x member leg, but I don't know if there is a reason to not do it. Hopefully some of you more skilled builders can give me some input. By this weekend I will have a 2004r case and SBC block dummied into position to verify my clearances, but I feel pretty confident the notches provide the cleara 100_9028.JPG nce needed.
     
  4. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
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    from Ok

    I do not see anything that would indicate that but will take some measurements on my 350 case and 200 case and verify. Fat39 on the HAMB did not indicate that when he replaced a 350 with a 200, so I don't think it is an issue.
     

  5. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
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    from Ok

    I need to give Fat39 credit for the pattern idea. He mentioned to me that he did the same. I borrowed an empty case from a friend and followed his lead.
     
  6. 39-2dr
    Joined: Jun 4, 2007
    Posts: 284

    39-2dr
    Member
    from MISSOURI

    I had two 200R4 transmissions in my 1939 Ford Standard sedan. I just hope you have better luck than me. Doing your pre-planning is a very good start. The chassis needs some mods for sure. The most important thing is to have a transmission that doesn't have a warped case. That transmission has a tendacy to heat up. Invest in a good transmission cooler with a fan if possible. Another good buy is a B&M transmission temperature gauge; a good $50 investment. The newer the transmission the better. I went thru two transmissions from a good area rebuilder. After the second one failed I had a 350 turbo built with an electric lockup to simulate 4th gear. My temperature temperature now runs consistantly in the 150 degree range. When the 200R4 worked, it did well. Good luck.
     
  7. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    I have a 2004r in my 40 coupe that replaced a 700R4 that was built by a highly respected local tranny guy. The 700 lasted about 15,000 miles. It was connected to a tuned port as from the factory and cooled thru the radiator and then thru a frame mounted cooler. I am pretty sure it had some internal defect. The 2004r came from a guy in Independence MO that several guys around here have used with good success. It only has about 5000 miles on it, but I like it better than the 700.
     
  8. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Tell me about the 350 with lockup and how it simulates a fourth gear. I was not aware of such a trans.
     
  9. 42merc
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 754

    42merc
    Member

    Seems like Buicks' used a lockup 350 converter.
    It locks the converter to eliminate the slip when in 3rd gear. I don't believe there is a 4th gear involved.
     
  10. paul55
    Joined: Dec 1, 2010
    Posts: 3,398

    paul55
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    from michigan

    I've got a good 350 w/lockup converter if anyone is interested.
     
  11. 39-2dr
    Joined: Jun 4, 2007
    Posts: 284

    39-2dr
    Member
    from MISSOURI

    I bought my 200R4 from the same guy. He is a good builder; and replaced it once. I don't race my car; but he chose not to warranty the 2nd tranny. I understood his position. The problem was a warped case in both cases. I went to a different builder who did warranty his 350 turbo with a lockup. When I engaged the lockup switch, it acts like a direct drive. If I forget to turn it off when I stop, it acts like I'm in 4th gear; boggs down. I haven't had any problems with this transmission; I've had it in my car for about seven years now. I will stress again to install a transmission temperature gauge. It's good insurance for $50. At this point I will be in Oklahoma the first weekend in May for the SK500.
     
  12. The elec 350, is called a 350-c hard to find but good tranny
     
  13. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    39-2dr, where was the case warped and how was it detected? How were you cooling it? Did you remove the block off he puts in the 1/2 accumulator? Hope to meet you at Dewey, I will be in my black 40 coupe or 53 F100.
     
  14. hbwoody
    Joined: Dec 29, 2003
    Posts: 131

    hbwoody
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  15. 39-2dr
    Joined: Jun 4, 2007
    Posts: 284

    39-2dr
    Member
    from MISSOURI

    Didn't see the first one. Just exchanged it. The transmission guy who pulledthe second one out Iinspected the second one and wouldn't use that case to rebuild it again. He offered the 350 with a lockup for a much cheaper price. He located a 200R case and priced a rebuild. I chose the 350 instead. I know people who use them for drag racing and have had good luck with them. Get a warranty.
     
  16. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    My original intent was to use a 350th I own. But the more I thought about it, since my 40 coupe and my 53 F100 both have od trans, I thought I would be sorry to not investigate the 2004r installation. A 46 coupe I sold last year had a C4 and I always felt like it should shift one more time. Thanks for your input. Hope I don't end up just like you.
     
  17. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
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    from Ok

    I don't see any clearance problems.
    100_9029.JPG
     
  18. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Well, after a second look I realized that I did not have the trans cover anywhere near where it sets in the car. So I took good measurements and moved it to the correct spot. Still seems to be adequate clearance.

    100_9033.JPG 100_9032.JPG 100_9035.JPG
     
  19. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 2,998

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Just looking at my pictures since my frame is away at the muffler shop, it looks like you may have to go forward with the trans cover some more. IMG_5781R.jpg

    F26R.jpg
    I could be wrong on this of course. Bottom line s that if you have to modify the cover it shouldn't be much of a change.
     
  20. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
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    from Ok

    I believe it is pretty close to where it would set in the body. I move it forward about one inch. That puts the lip that the toe boards set on 8" behind the front body mounts. It still clears. I believe it will work ok.
     
  21. 39-2dr
    Joined: Jun 4, 2007
    Posts: 284

    39-2dr
    Member
    from MISSOURI

    My cross member now bolts in and the frame was notched a bit. But putting a 350 back in is easy to do.
     
  22. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 21,334

    Roothawg
    Member

    Okiedokie, you need to post the pics on this thread of what you decided to do with your mounts.
     
  23. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
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    from Ok

    Ok Chris, I will.
     
  24. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Here is what I have done for wishbone mounts to accommodate a 2004r trans in my 40. I will construct a brace to run from mount to mount under the trans pan. 100_9212.JPG 100_9216.JPG
     
    joel, flatheadfever and The 39 guy like this.
  25. I'm planning a 2004r in my 36.
    Anymore updates?
     
  26. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,235

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Been working on other stuff so not much progress. Hopefully Roothawg will update his progress on his install. It will be awhile before I can set the engine/trans in place.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  27. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 21,334

    Roothawg
    Member

    I got my tranny back but still waiting on my heads. Maybe this week, I'll get a call.
     
  28. nlualum82
    Joined: Dec 24, 2005
    Posts: 103

    nlualum82
    Member
    from Oregon

    I finally found a 200-4Runner a few years ago after considerable searching.
    I was disappointed a time or two by people who had a different transmission.
    One of them was an old guy I had to drive a long way for and it turned out that he had a 350-c. It was a good one if that had been what I was looking for.
    He didn't seem very knowledgeable so I let it slide. He was pushy and I even showed him the difference in the pans on my tablet.
    He got angry..."I don't care what yer little thingy there says...". Some people!
     
  29. 40 Coupe Since 69
    Joined: Aug 4, 2016
    Posts: 12

    40 Coupe Since 69
    Member

    [QUOTE="okiedokie, post: I need to give Fat39 credit for the pattern idea. He mentioned to me that he did the same. [/QUOTE]

    Hey okiedokie, I know you got busy with other stuff and haven't finish this project :-(
    Who is this guy Fat39? I can't find him anywhere, even tried Google. Did he finish the 2004R install?

    Thanks for your photos!
    I'm just starting to try and get measurements as best I can, tape measure and eyeball laying on the ground under the 40, not easy.

    Mike
     

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