Technical 2004r Installed convertor wrong - now what?

I'm still going with the (wrong) 30 spline converter core...until I hear otherwise.

 

So in the continuing saga, I bolted the transmission back together minus the inspection plate and started it up. No noise! Wahoo! BUT no gears still. Checked the fluid level and topped it off but still no gears.

Something strange was that when I measured the torque converter to flywheel spacing (3/16" withing spec), the torque converter was pushed all the way towards the transmission and felt properly engaged. It felt right. BUT when I pushed it the 3/16" forward to bolt to the flywheel, it felt like I was disengaging the torque converter from the transmission.

On a side note, I have about 5,000 km on this car since a total frame off restoration started from 15 years ago. The "new" mechanical fuel pump decided to start leaking gas through the weep hole which means the diaphragm is shot. So no more testing of the transmission until the pump is replaced. Sigh..

 

Did you check the cooler lines for pressure yet?

 

This is the first time that I've installed a transmission that is "dry'. All previous transmissions were used and had fluid in them. I was talking to a buddy and he said that you have to run it for a reasonable amount of time to purge the air out of the system while keep adding fluid to it.

I haven't checked the cooler lines for pressure yet. First I have to replace the leaking fuel pump. For some reason I'm not too comfortable with a pool of gas under the engine. Hopefully, I'll get to it today. Life keeps getting in the way.

 

The transmission is working. Kept adding fluid while it was running until it was fully topped up. Cycling through the gears and after about 30 minutes it started moving forward and 5 min later I had reverse. The car was jacked up. So add this up to my inexperience in installing a dry transmission.

Next is adjusting the !@#$%% universal TV cable that came with the transmission. Every website and article about adjusting the TV cable talks about pressing the D button but my cable doesn't have the factory style D button. Instead it looks like the universal one shown here.

The procedure seems simple enough:

"Press the D button and slide the sleeve toward the firewall as far as it will go and let go of the button. Now open the throttle to the wide open position and release. You should be able to hear the sleeve click (rachet) as it slides through the cable housing. "

But my universal cable will not ratchet!

 

The instructions are very clear for using the universal throttle cable. You will need a transmission pressure gauge to set it correctly, it's not like the D-button style at all. You've come this far, but you might want to call in a pro so you don't burn the trans up due to incorrectly adjusting the cable.

 

Not so clear as the one shown on the http://www.tvmadeez.com site linked above. They have a fixed carburetor link. Mine has an adjustable one. So here's the issue. On my TV cable, the "ratchet" end is adjustable and the carb end is adjustable. Where do I start?

Seems like a simple problem, if you have a ratcheting style TV cable with the D push clip.

So the first problem is how much tension at idle should be on the cable? I've read that with a pressure gauge, that pushing on the cable should show a couple of psi increase. This indicates that the TV pump is adjusted properly.

Then at wide open throttle, the TV cable is fully pulled out.

I think that the simplest solution is to just buy a new TV ratcheting cable.

 

Here's the best information that I found:



Older video but makes it damn simple.

 

So in retrospect, here's what happened:

• Converter was installed properly with the right clearance
• No damage to the transmission
• The frigging universal plastic transmission inspection plate that came with the transmission isn't universal and hits the flywheel creating the horrible noise. I had to clearance the area but cutting out the plastic then making a metal cover and then to put 3/8" spacers to move the cover further away. I'll make a trip to the wreckers and see if I can pick up an original one.
• The transmission didn't go into gear because I didn't fill it up with enough fluid, misread the instructions. When it was finally full, it took about 30 minutes to purge and get the gears working.
• The supplied TV cable did not match the instructions and it made no sense to follow. I've purchased a standard universal cable and it works perfect.
• The first time that I used the locking transmission dipstick, the locking mechanism/handle broke. Have you ever heard of a dipstick breaking?

 

After adjusting the new TV cable and taking it for a test ride, I checked under the hood and the TV cable was loose! After I had adjusted it, it was tight. I pulled on the cable and the throttle valve end had unhooked. WTF?

So back under the car for the 4th time to fix the TV cable. I'm regretting changing out my beautiful shifting reliable TH350 for this transmission.

I'll post a picture to show the poorly designed new TV cable end and the original end. So that you can see how the new one is made allowing it to unhook!

I've been working on cars since the 70s and it's not supposed to be this difficult and frustrating.

 

This is a comparison between the B&M Universal TV cable and a generic TV cable. The generic cable has a washer style guide designed in to keep the end centered in the cable sheath. The B&M cable end can move to one side and disconnect from the TV wire end which happened to me. A disconnected TV cable means that you are getting low pressure to the transmission which can burn out the transmission.

 

i wonder if a little piece of vacuum hose would make a good "washer"?

 

That's a good idea.

I put the original one back on and adjusted the TV cable so that at wide open throttle, the TV cable was pulled out as far as it would go. But when it returned to idle position, the cable was slack which doesn't feel right. I have an appointment on Monday with a transmission shop to have them look at it and adjust it properly.

 

I'd think it shouldn't ever be slack. That sounds like the length of the lever arms is off somehow.

 

Don't drive it, you'll burn it up within a few short miles without that cable set correctly.

 

I'm going to tighten it up, tight is better then slack then take it to transmission shop and let them figure it out.

 

I've got the Edelbrock lever arm kit installed to get the right geometry.

 

Towing it there might be cheaper than burning it up with a misadjusted TV cable.

 

The issue is a loose cable versus a tighter one. A loose cable will not allow sufficient pressure to engage the clutches which can burn out the transmission. A tight cable will provide more pressure. Loose is bad, tight is good.

 

that's what i always say...........

 

Bow tie overdrives has the most comprehensive explanation of TV cables that I've seen.
They go over the theory of why it's adjusted the way it is, and 3 different styles of cables.
All 3 end with actually watching the guage hooked to the transmission, they even tell you that 7 feet of hose on the guage is required and enough for just about any car.

 

I always have the stock output shaft replaced with a hardened shaft because its a weak link in the 200 4r's .so you may have done yourself a favor. In some instances you may have to shim the torque converter out from the flywheel just a little with washers so that it will lock into the tranny. Hope this helps.
Scott

 

Alright, had the car flatbedded to National Transmission in Calgary. They are known for working on muscle cars - had a bunch of 60/70s Camaros and 57 Chev in the shop at the time. Called back within 2 hours and said everything is fine. The TV cable just needed to be adjusted. We took it for a test drive and it shifted wonderfully. Total cost about $250 including the tow. Great deal as now I know it is okay. What a relief.

Just have to dial in the speedo. I used TCI online speedo gear calculator to determine the "right" gear and after purchasing and installing it, it is off by 20% which is quite high. Makes me wonder if my rear end gears are really 3.08s or 3.73s. You'd think that I would know by now.

 

Going to rename this posting "the transmission story from hell!".

From what I could see, the drive gear in the transmission is a faded orange 11 tooth and not white which would make sense and put the speedometer out by 20%. After running around the city, talking to several jobbers and transmission shops, I found a 13 tooth drive gear that was colored "light green"?

Then spent the whole freaking day, trying to get the transmission pan off as the transmission mount was in the way. It finally slipped off and then spent a couple of hours looking for a governor cover gasket with no luck. Finally pulled the governor off and it is is a tan 13 tooth drive gear! WTF?

Went to put it back together except I can't get the transmission pan on cause it won't slip back in between the transmission mount the way it came off. Gave up after two hours of frustration. Now I have to pull the shifter so that I can raise the transmission more to have more clearance for the pan to go back in. And have to buy a new transmission pan gasket.

Now I'm totally confused. I had a 30 tooth blue driven gear in with the 13 tooth drive gear and the speedometer was out 20%. Back to square one.

So tomorrow, back under the car to put everything back together and say "screw it", if the speedo is out, I'll have to live with it because it makes no sense.

 

Reasons not to install a 200-4r transmission (not related to the frustration):

• Parts are incredibly difficult to find - I went to the only local transmission supplier that still carried 200-4r parts and he said that he has almost no parts left in stock and has been in business for over 30 years.
• Cores are incredibly difficult to find, even at the wreckers - 500 cars and no 200-4r last month.
• 2-1 downshifts are incredibly hard - this caught me by surprise. When I slow down to 5 mph while stopping, the 2-1 downshift is a loud bang. I figure that I'll be going through universal joints, it's that bad. I talked to the local transmission shop about it when we went on a test drive after setting the TV cable and even called the original builder and both said that is a characteristic of the 200-4r transmission with a shift kit. I can live with everything else but I wouldn't of purchased the transmission if I knew about this downshift issue.

 

I'll trade you a 350 installed

 

https://www.tciauto.com/tc/speedometer-gear-calculator/

 

That is the calculator that I've been using and verified it on other sites:

 

With all the negativity and frustration that I've posted, there are some real nice points about the 200-4r that I would like to share: 1st gear ratio, it is extremely easy to spin both tires when taking off. Give it some gas and bam we're off.

The overdrive is great, instead of 3000 rpm at highway speeds, I'm down around 2200 rpm which is real nice.

 

Found a nice little speedometer app for my Android phone which works off the GPS. I can measure precisely the speedo error. The speedometer is exactly 10% off at speed. That means I need to go to a red drive gear. Have to pull the pan again! Aaaagh, that is such a messy job.

Been driving around trying to fine tune the TV cable. I'm pretty sure that the clutches are slipping, probably burnt them up when I initially started trying to set the TV cable with the WRONG instructions supplied by the tranny shop. OR when the B&M TV cable disconnected while driving. Doesn't matter, I can't stand this transmission and the way it shifts. It's supposed to be a street/strip stage 1 transmission and here's the problems:

• Hard shifts, no matter how you drive
• Shifts at 3,000 rpm, no matter how you are driving. Nothing like driving in stop and go traffic at 3,000 rpm then hard down shifts
• Hard down shifts, feels like I'm going to be going through lots of u-joints, it's that hard
• Feels like it's out of balance, going to have to disconnect the torque converter and check if it's the transmission or my 6,000 km ago engine rebuild.
• Feels like it is slipping in every gear. Press the gas, rpm goes up by 1000 rpm and then it starts pulling.
• Doesn't feel like the torque converter ever locks up.

The instructions say that the TV cable is adjust right when under moderate acceleration the shift points are 1-2 at 15-20 mph (30 kmh), 2-3 at 35-40 mph (60 kmh) and 3-4 at 50-60 mph (90 kmh). It was shifting exactly at those points.

I've noticed that when I accelerate normally, it won't shift until I back off of the gas. Strange.