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Technical 2004r Installed convertor wrong - now what?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by blanchae, Apr 15, 2016.

  1. blanchae
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 57

    blanchae
    Member

    Installed brand new street/strip 2004r transmission behind 400 cid sbc. I was replacing a tired turbo 350. Sounds like I didn't install the torque converter on properly because when I started it up, it made a terrible pinging sound like I stripped the input shaft. Shifiting gears didn't do anything.

    So I need advice on what to do next after I pull the transmission. Is the torque converter shot? What do I look for? Is the damage limited to the input shaft and torque convertor? Can the convertor be saved?
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,876

    squirrel
    Member

    usually it just wipes out the pump.
     
  3. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,221

    F&J
    Member

    If the pump is like a TH350, the two cast "ears" on the pump drive gear, have been broken off. Those ears are what fits into the two notches on the converter snout. If these were not lined up before tightening the flexplate and bellhousing, the snout has snapped them off.

    If the pump is like a TH350, remove the bolts behind the converter, and two holes are threaded to act like a puller, if you screw bolts into them. That will get the pump loose from the case.

    I never worked on a 200 though
     
  4. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,876

    squirrel
    Member

    it's a vane pump, but it does have the two ears, and I think it's a powdered metal part. The pump housing is aluminum, right?

    when you put it all together, did the converter have some free play when you when to bolt it to the flexplate? or was it binding?
     

  5. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,371

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    what they said--broken pump ears. What Jim said. Should have been in the trans far enough that there was some gap/slack between the flexplate and the converter. Converter can be tricky to seat if you are not careful.
     
  6. roundvalley
    Joined: Apr 10, 2005
    Posts: 1,774

    roundvalley
    Member

    Had the same thing on a 700r4. Pull the tranny and then off to a rebuild shop.
     
  7. check first to see if the inspection cover is hitting the flywheel.
     
  8. blanchae
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 57

    blanchae
    Member

    Yes it did have free play, no binding.
     
  9. blanchae
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 57

    blanchae
    Member

    Spent about 45 minutes lining up the convertor and there was a gap. Some one said that the converter has to click 3 times to engage.
     
  10. blanchae
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 57

    blanchae
    Member

    It's a plastic inspection cover and not hitting.
     
    1ton likes this.
  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,876

    squirrel
    Member

    Could be a problem inside the transmission or converter...sounds like you put it together right. You won't always get 3 "clicks" when the converter splines and pump engage, depends on how they are aligned, sometimes they just slide right in.
     
  12. Doesn't sound like a converter issue then. First thing I would do in pull a cooler line and put a hose on both ends and run them into a drain pan. Have an assistant fire it up and see if it pumps fluid at high pressure .Be ready to shut it off instantly.
    If you've got good pressure, I suppose you could pull the pan and make sure the manual valve is engaged..Does it have park? If it does, you will probably have to pull it. Reassemble the front half and air check the forward clutch through the front pump..Start there .
     
  13. If you have to pull the converter too far forward to make up to the flex plate you can come disingaged from the 2 tabs on the pump. Depending on the gap you might have to shim the space between the two. I stripped the pump tabs on a 200 4R after a 1000 miles once. You could see where it wasn't engaged enough.
     
  14. I changed the converter, pump and flex plate with that one and I still had to use shims. You have to have some play between the converter and flex plate to allow for expansion.
     
  15. blanchae
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 57

    blanchae
    Member

    I thought it had too much play, I wish that someone had documented that you could have too much free play... :-(
     
  16. blanchae
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 57

    blanchae
    Member

    "did you adjust the TV cable correctly?"
    I'm pretty sure I did but I don't believe if it was adjusted incorrectly, it wouldn't move at all. It would change the shift points. Maybe someone else can give the symptoms of a mis-adjusted TV cable?
     
    falcongeorge likes this.
  17. How big of a gap?

    The other night when I replied, I had forgotten that you said it made a horrendous noise too.
    In that case, if nothing was hitting , you need to pull the thing back out.
    Otherwise, for someone with a similar no-go situation, and no noise, I stand by my post.
     
  18. I don't see that post either, but yes you are correct there.
    Early or late , soft shifts, no 4th without excessive high speed , would be some symptoms
     
    woody45 likes this.
  19. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    You know the converters designed for LT1 applications are a little over 1/2" shorter and wont work with a "traditional" small-block, right?
     
  20. The 700 style trans is 30 spline input ,while the 200 series is 27, so it wouldn't work anyway.
     
  21. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

  22. Novaron
    Joined: Mar 12, 2010
    Posts: 188

    Novaron
    Member
    from New York

    I had the same problem on my 2004r. I was using the wrong convertor bolts. Made a clanking, pinging sound. This was awhile ago, but I seem to remember that even though the bolts I had would tighten, there was an issue with a space between the flex plate and convertor. Got the correct ones from Jegs/ARP
     
  23. I think max 5/16 and 1/4" is good. Shims just have to be the same thickness. I used Ss washers and lock title on the threads.
     
    bantam likes this.
  24. Hold on. You said LT1 ,and I read it as LS1 which is in fact much longer overall length.
    The Lt 1 converter is std metric stuff,, 5.950 overall height.Standard 1.702 pilot for 350 one piece seal crank.
    27 spline 200, 30 spline 700 series That's all ..carry on.
    No such thing as a 3o spline 200 , except for racing applications.
    Make it 30 spline?...It's now a 700 converter.`
     
  25. blanchae
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 57

    blanchae
    Member

    The transmission was built for me with specs to connect to a 400 cid SBC, not an LT1. I wonder if they gave me the wrong converter?
     
  26. blanchae
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 57

    blanchae
    Member

    I put it in last Sept then after starting it and getting terribly depressed, I stored it away for the winter. Haven't got it out yet. But the gap was around 3/4", I remember thinking that it was larger then expected. I was more worried that it being too tight and binding.
     
  27. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 2,438

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    A misadjusted cable can cause wrong shift points and burned up clutches.

    http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/
     
  28. Doesn't matter, as long as you use the 400 external balance flex plate. The stall might be a bit higher because of the 3.75 stroke, but if you have the lock up stuff installed, it won't matter much.
     
  29. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    It could be. IIRC the LT1 style converters are .6 shorter, or something very close to that. I will look it up and get you an exact measurement, so you can measure your converter.
     
  30. Can't be. It's almost impossible to build a converter that short. It needs to be somewhere between about .090 and .150, .160 maybe.
     

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