A good friend of mine John Hesford tried Bonneville around '95 in a beautiful 40 sedan delivery. It was as much of a show car as a land speed car, powered by a blown, bored and stroked 460. On one of its runs John blew a radiator hose that got the tires wet and slick. He flat spun it I think 3 times. He was hoping for 175 to do what Big Bill did in the 50's with a sedan delivery. I was there just after he got out of the vehicle, lets say he was a bit in shock. The SD was sold soon afterwards. So he was fighting aero and major catastrophe, and luckly lived. Drive fast and Drive safe........
You've got to post a VIDEO once it's up and running. 200 mph in a '40 sedan is gonna be veddy interesting. Good luck with it- be safe
When I saw the title of this thread I was reminded of the tag line one of that another poster on this board uses. " Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines " attributed to Enzo Ferrari
You know, you could chop the shit out of it - kinda reduce some of the 'barn-wall-liness'. It's been done on coupes, sedans, etc ...... for ever! Why not? Might save havin' to find another one or two hundred horses from somewhere. Colour is bitchin' Good luck and be safe/ Cheers, DB
If you are going for speed and not a red hat you need to do major clean-up Chop as mentioned,, and as mentioned the back of the 40 is the same as a wing, and once you get around 150-160 the rear will lift, a lot. And even with lots horse power you can not over come lift. So you will need to think like land speed racers, not drag racers. In land speed, weight is your friend, our 28 on 32 roadster must tip the scales at 3600 pounds. So pack on the pounds to help hold the rear end down. And again if you are not going for a record and rather just speed, put a big ass wing on the back to hold down the rear. And add two parachutes, one cause you have to and another for when the first one fails, and they fail it happened to me. I have not done 200 yet, but I talk to my fellow racers about speed, because when you are on a course all your points of comparison to speed are gone, no road signs, no telephone poles, no other cars.. So, at 100 to 175 it is 'normal' or it seems to be, but once you go past 175 everything changes in what you can see and the time frame from the start to the finish. Getting to 200 is like hitting a wall and passing through. Now when it comes time for your cage, you need to build beyond the Rule Book minimums, think beyond NASCAR and Top Fuel,, review Dean's Studie and google Honda insight crash at El Mirage, or Danny Thompsons 280 crash in a Mustang at Bonneville, it like motor cycles, it's not if you go down, it's when you do. I am not trying to dissuade you, or scare you but Land Speed Racing is fine line of speed and disaster. If 200 was easy, we would all have Red Hats.
Not my car, fellas...belongs to a couple friend's of mine. Regarding the chop: Not knowing the rules for their class, it's possible it may be against the rules to cut the top. I dunno but I know these guys are not the least bit intimated cutting a top...even a 40 sedan top. I agree it's tough to go 200 as evidenced by the fact I've never gone that fast! I coaxed 179 out of my son't pro-charged ZO-6 at the Texas mile one year and we got his old turbo 944 Porsche to go 150 at B'ville another year. Week long event and we were shooting for 150 to get into the usfra's 150 MPH club. We unloaded on Monday and went 150 . 40 our first run but we needed a back up run of 150 or more to get into the club....spent a solid week tweaking the car to get another 150 MPH run and it wasn't 'till Friday afternoon when I noticed the wind sock was showing a wind change direction.....I hustled da kid up to the line [we were the very last car to run] and nailed a 156.998 run to get into the club...got a T-shirt for our trouble. By then we'd removed the outside door handles and mirrors, removed all interior except driver's seat, used heavy duty plastic tape to tape all the gaps in hood, doors, trunk etc etc and taped up the grille, leaving a 3 inch square for radiator on one side and another 3 inch square for turbo intake....taped around the windows and windshield edges. We experimented with tire pressures too..it was a total bitch just to go 150! The Porsche went away to make room for the 'vette...good move.
One thing I would be questioning is the lack of fenders visa-vi the trade-off of reduced frontal area vs increased drag from the exposed wheels. Not saying I know the answer, but that is something that I would do some hard thinking about if I were trying to do 200mph in a '40 sedan. I wouldn't necessarily assume that running it without fenders is the answer just because the frontal area is smaller.
It would be interesting to put the car in a wind tunnel with a smoke wand and have enough time in the tunnel to make some body changes, following the rules for their particular class. The wind tunnel would need a set of scales built into the floor to show lift, downforce etc...
They should take the car to Omaha today and drive it around. They received 6 inches of snow and some pretty icey conditions. If they can get traction, They should be okay.
Im saving vacation days to go to B-ville. 2 of the local guys[Gary Hart/Hooley] told me it would be a big mistake to go. Said I would be spending all of my time trying to go after 1 visit.
They are right! I made my first trip to the 50th in 1998 and have went 8 or 9 times since. Hoping for no rain in 2016.
I have had this dream to take my daughter to speedweeks in an open car since she was born. For the last two years, I have been worried that maybe the chance for that is past, and Bonneville as we think of it had breathed its last. I will have my convert done in plenty of time for 2017, maybe I will get to share that dream after all.
I now find all the Bonneville talk far more interesting than I did a few years ago. Reading Dean Lowe's account of his spin and the other tales have far more meaning after getting to help with the Carrillo roadster restoration. That car ran 178 MPH in 1951. I have been told that it actually ran faster the next year but never backed up it's run. There is very little there ( before safety requirements ) except a seat belt. Here are a few pictures so you can see first hand .You guys who run those high speeds have my admiration. duck under roll bar with chest impaler steering column basic structure illustrates the distance between the family jewels and the ground I simply could not feature putting myself in that kind of danger.............those that do have my respect
good luck with it !.....and ouch Dean....but you sure looked clean standing next to that Stude-ee...glad your still around....
This effort reminds me of when Woody Parker and Gary Thacker built a '37 Willys named Salt Assault. The hole deal was less than 50" high and looked like a Willys. (Still looking for a pic, any help appreciated) They wanted to haul ass with a DZ302, and they did. Some guys from The Santa Barbara Acceleration Association, who were on the safety crew, during one of Gary's runs, watched it lift and sliiiiiiiiide on it's lid far enough that they caught up and stood around it as it slowly spun to a stop. By then the crazies had thrown down hats to mark their bets as to where it would be pointing when it did. Gary was fine and did not hurl. The car was not. Best of luck to these cats.
The trouble, as previously stated, is when the power required to overcome aerodynamic drag exceeds available traction. Losing traction gets particularly interesting when the center of pressure is ahead of the center of mass.
Agree the wind tunnel will prove very interesting results on that 40... No down force at all with that body design... Would be killer to watch this run...
Last Saturday the guys still hadn't taken the car down the street for the first time. We've enjoyed a warm spurt of weather for a few days and maybe they have driven it by now...will check and see as Joe's garage is only about a mile from my house. Gotta go to Grand Island, Ne this weekend to see Dennis' [383 Deuce here on the HAMB] deuce 3 window in it's debut at their local annual car show! Will take photos.
I just stumbled across this post. They did manage to get the Stude to 200 in 2012. I believe the Ford is going to be at the world of wheels next weekend as well.
I was there when the beautiful Willys went on the roof right in front of us, that thing hauled the mail. It was years back but I believe it spun twice then lifted & went on the roof. Don't recall if it ended up on the roof or the wheels. My friends Doug & Frank with the Salt Cat Jag got it up to 194 years back with a straight 8 Buick & a turbo in an 87 Jag sedan but youre going to have your work cut out for you with that 40 sedan. Ive seen 53-55 Studebaker guys with huge 1/2 inch thick sheets of steel in the trunk to keep them on the ground. I think youll have problems keeping the back end down on that 40 but I wish you the best of luck with your efforts. Ill be there to watch you try.
97... Is wrong about who is line for a spin pin..it's the gas/fuel roadsters. It's seems to be not "if" but "when". I applaud the 1941 Studie for going 200. My GMC 6 powered 40 Chevrolet is very close to the same contour. I never removed the fenders but the rear of the car started to lift a little over 150 so we quit running fuel. Barn doors are tough make go fast as well as 32 grille shells
IMO leave the trunk lid UN-latched, it will let air out and open almost level at speed.. A '38 Ford did just that at Fremont, just before the '46 of Fat Jack flew.. Every trip down the track the trunk lid raised almost to level
Worked on a friend's OT car recently for salt down here. I couldn't believe the actual ballast in it just to keep it on the ground and how much it all weighs. And it's more aerodynamic than a cinder block 40
Knowing the horsepower we have in our D/PP Unibody and what it takes to get that block to 150 range I wish them luck. So much anti-aero going on, the open wheels do not help like a lakester. Calculated drag on my lakester bodywork (avatar @ my left) vs. car WITH tires hanging out is a HUGE difference.
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