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Technical 1979 Ford F-150 Steering Box Reversed Problems

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 35joe, May 5, 2020.

  1. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
    Member

    I reversed my 1979 F-150 steering box without incident. Forgetting to check how many turns was there. After the reversal, I have 2-1/2 turns lock to lock. Is that normal? I need more turning radius.
    Thx
     
  2. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,868

    alchemy
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    Reversing the box won’t change the amount of travel.

    You might need a box with a different ratio.
     
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  3. fordor41
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 921

    fordor41
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    I wanted to replace the Gemmer G/B on my '41 Ford. I went to the junkyard and found an older Ford Ranger truck with a G/B that almost exactly matched the old one. Had them side by side on the bench and discovered the Ranger box turned in opposite direction than the stock box! That would have been interesting first time down the road if I hadn't found the difference.
     
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  4. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,533

    Mr48chev
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    Sneaking over on the Ford truck bard I found this in a steering box discussion

    15:1 is a special option, so it is definitely not original. 18:1 is original, based on my recent bleeding experience while resealing my gear, but I am honestly too lazy at the moment to go double check and there is no confirmation on Blue-Top's site. According to their info 18:1= 4 turns lock to lock and 15:1= 3 1/4 turns lock to lock.
     

  5. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 298

    Phil P
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    A longer pitman arm will turn the front wheels further.

    Phil
     
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  6. sliceddeuce
    Joined: Aug 15, 2017
    Posts: 2,982

    sliceddeuce
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    Yes it will. However,...that the direct opposite of what he is attempting to do. For reasons known only to himself, he wishes to increase the radius. I know, seems strange to me as well.
     
  7. sliceddeuce
    Joined: Aug 15, 2017
    Posts: 2,982

    sliceddeuce
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    Sorry,..Forgot this...:rolleyes:
     
  8. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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    I had the drag link on the inner ball and it didn't turn the tires enough. Reluctantly I moved it in one hole and the same. Putting it in the hole closest to the tire was perfect for tire turn but seemed too close to the tire.
    Well when I removed the jack stands, the tires barely turned. Using the formula above, my pitman is 1-1/2" too short. In lining up with wishbone it's 2-1/2" short. I had a hrd time finding a pitman for a 79 Ford MANUAL box.
    15887758017911740074066.jpg
     
  9. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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    Did you have a chance to check? Thx.
     
  10. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,221

    Jmountainjr
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    Are you saying that after you reversed the box, the box itself ( as in not connected to anything) only had 2 1/2 turns lock to lock? If so, something is wrong in the box. Since the 1979 is a recirculating ball box, and you reversed it, did you flip the worm gear 180 on the input shaft?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  11. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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    No, I don't think so
     
  12. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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    Thx for your help! I don't recall it saying to do that. So I should have rotated the input a half turn?
     
  13. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,221

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    You need to do that. The gears are tapered. That's what allows the lash adjustment. To keep that correct correlation between the gears you need to flip both the input shaft and the worm gear on the input shaft. If not, you are now stuffing the thick end of the worm gear into the sector first. It's a step that a majority of the online "instructions" leave out.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
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  14. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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    The Pete/Jake directions simply said to pull the sector and slide it in the other side of the box
     
  15. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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    Jmountainjr
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  16. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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    thx. This is what I used

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1z2jNhUVvSHWABU90Qsf5n
     
  17. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,221

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    Consider the source. I doubt if Pete & Jakes has anything to do with Killbillet.com. Manual steering stuff isn't that complicated, but to be safe you just need to understand how it works. Especially if you modify it. I am confident if you take your box apart and flip the worm gear and readjust the box for pre-load and lash that your problem will go away.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  18. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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  19. Inked Monkey
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 1,822

    Inked Monkey
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    You should have more turns lock to lock. Were you checking with it hooked up to your steering or disconnected? I can check the one I reversed later today
     
  20. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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    Disconnected. Thank you
     
  21. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,355

    Boneyard51
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    Could someone tell me how you “ reverse” a 1979 F-150 Ford steering box? While it’s been a while since I’ve worked on one, I don’t see how it could be “ reversed “? Thanks,


    Ok, I just found an old thread and saw how it’s done. Pretty tricky! I was more familiar with the power steering versions of that model! Lol

    Also, as with most steering box you need to “ time” the out put shaft with the input shaft. That is the center of the input “ gear” has to be meshed with the center of the output gear, or you will limit the travel . This could be your problem, with the reduced number of turns.





    Bones
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  22. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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  23. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,355

    Boneyard51
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    I also didn’t see where you were told to time it, in the one I saw. That is very important to get the proper travel both ways. This could be your problem , if you did not do that. Before you take yours completely apart to reverse the rolling block, check to see if the block moves the output shaft to the end each way. You can watch it work after pulling the plate on top of the output shaft. Just unscrew the adjusting bolt as you lift the plate. Then you can see the rolling block, meshed with the output gear. Turn the input all the way both ways, to see if the teeth in both allow it to move max both ways. Easy check.










    Bones
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  24. Inked Monkey
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 1,822

    Inked Monkey
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    Yep something is wonky with yours. I just checked my box and with it sitting on the bench it has 6 revolutions lock to lock. Something is limiting yours? I remember that they were super slow boxes which is why I went with it. I lengthened my pitman arm to mount it high in the cowl and to slow it down.
     
  25. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,221

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    Yes, you could get the sector one tooth off. Not easy to do, but could happen. But that will not fix the tooth contact and adjustment issues if the worm gear is not turned when reversing the box. If you look at the two photos below you will see both gears have tapered teeth. You need to flip the worm gear to keep that relationship when reversing the box to do it correctly.
    20200508_140904.jpg
    20200508_140953.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
  26. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
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    Thank you so much!
     
  27. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 513

    oldtom69
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    from grandin nd

    doesn't matter,according to eastwood yur gonna die anyway cause of the cowl steering
     
  28. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,355

    Boneyard51
    Member

    I agree, Jim , that you need to turn the input gear around. But how do you turn the out put around? I think you only need to reverse the input teeth on the roller bearings, to mesh with the taper of the out put. Also you can get the input and output out of time, and limit the travel.










    Bones
     
  29. 35joe
    Joined: Nov 21, 2015
    Posts: 90

    35joe
    Member

    I was very careful when I flipped the sector shaft. I was in uncharted waters. I no doubt could have gone one tooth off though. I am pulling the box today, how will I know if I it's off? Thx.
     
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  30. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,221

    Jmountainjr
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    Boneyard, technically you are correct, the sector shaft and gear are one piece and it's orientation does not change. The worm gear does get flipped on the input shaft to compensate for the fact that you swapped the input shaft 180 in the case. When I say "flip both gears" it's a bit of a misstatement to draw attention to the fact that the gears are tapered and you need to maintain that relationship for tooth contact and to be able to adjust lash. It is probably better said that you flip the input shaft to get your reversed operation and flip the worm gear to put back into its original orientation with the sector gear. Thanks for posting as I don't want to cause more confusion.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
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