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1976 460 build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by spudz, Oct 4, 2007.

  1. spudz
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 531

    spudz
    Member

    Traded some junk for a 76 mercury with a 460 in it.. Does anyone have any links to some proven builds??? with HP numbers... I am looking at swapping pistons, shot peening the rods and installing ARP bolts, solid lift cam, intake, carb, balancing it, etc... NOTHING RADICAL.. just want a good combo that could still take maybe a 125 shot of gas... What I am needing is proven cams, intake, Are the stock valve springs ok? , carb size... the whole setup should weigh around 3300 with a c6 trans.. Any oiling tricks that need to be done??? I know the FE motors have oiling probs... Just curious... I tryed to search but it wouldn't let me search for numbers??
     
  2. 34Fordtk
    Joined: May 30, 2002
    Posts: 1,690

    34Fordtk
    Member

  3. mustube
    Joined: Sep 16, 2007
    Posts: 8

    mustube
    Member

    The 460's make gobs of power rather easily so I suggest that you drop the nitrous and invest in some good heads so you don't risk your engine. But that's me, you might be a pro at nitrous and know exactly what to do to prevent it from comming apart.
     
  4. As mentioned 460Ford.com is a great source & there is even a "Builds" section that should provide some comparable engines.

    Given the way you've described things:

    1) Absolutely change the valve springs. If your choice of cam isn't too radical, the corresponding spring set will be fairly cheap. The stock springs are old, tired, & lazy by this time anyway....& weren't that capable in the first place.

    2) No oiling PASSAGE or restrictor mods required, regardless what crap you read on the Net (for what you are doing). Set the main & rod clearances correctly, use decent oil & a GOOD filter (not Fram) & you'll be fine. If you want to spend a little $$ here, run a pump from these guys: http://www.highflowdynamics.com/ This website also details DRAINBACK mods, & a simple mod to add extra oil to the distributor gear. These aren't strictly necessary, but they are easy to do. He does cover some passage mods in the sense of smoothing corners & so forth...again, a good idea, but not "NEEDED" to make everything work. In other words, you're not fixing problems, but rather fine-tuning the oil system. :)

    If the HFD Stage 1 pump is not in the budget, run a stock pump, or even the Melling pump for your oil pan.

    3) You didn't say much about the heads, but I'm guessing they are original, which means D3VE. Even if porting isn't in the budget, you can simply grind out the Thermactor bumps, blend the guides & bowls, all of which takes about an hour, & pick up some easy power. If you are feeling more adventurous, go to http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/ & pay his one-time fee...worth the money, & he details head mods, with pictures. He also offers custom cam grinds & cam/lifter/spring packages pretty cheap. For the money they tend to be comparable to buying just cam/lifters from Comp.

    The D3VE heads use pedestal rockers, which are non-adjustable. You can A) have them converted to stud/guideplates by a machine shop (roller rockers required); B) use the Crane bolt-on conversion, which works OK for mild spring pressures (roller rockers are required); C) shim the pedestals/use adjustable pushrods, or both; D) use the brand-new Harland Sharp adjustable rockers for pedestal-type heads. These are limited in availability, & kind of pricey right now...but you may find that it is cheaper to go this way than A or B, & offers better adjustability & valvetrain geometry than C. Unless you use a very mild cam, you'll need to think about this.

    4) The 460 likes a large carb as a rule, but a safe bet is always the 3310 Holley 750 VS. Easy to tune & pretty close out of the box. You can often go to a 850 even on a fairly mild build.

    I would look at either the Edelbrock Perf. RPM, or if you intend to use quite a bit of cam & rpm, the Weiand Stealth. Either will work; the RPM can be a little more street-friendly on some vehicles. The Stealth has a larger internal volume.

    5) Spend some time on the ignition curve. The stock '70s 460 timing curves are slower than a Florida retiree driving in the left lane, and you can pick up a lot of power & response here with some effort. The website I mentioned above also has instructions on how to modify a Duraspark, or you can buy 'em outright...or, with extra $$$ in hand you could always use an MSD dizzy.

    6) Headers are a requirement in this case....

    7) If you really do plan to stick to a 125 shot, max, & know how to work with the carb & timing, the Speed-Pro/TRW LW2602F will work with those heads & give around 9- 9.5:1 compression, depending on head milling, gasket choice, etc. Pay close attention to the final deck height; with that chamber it generally works well to shoot for a finished deck height of 0 & use a Fel-Pro 1018 .041 head gasket. This gives good "quench" & is a pretty common setup.

    You could also use a KB hypereutectic for what you're doing, but...you have to pay very careful attention to ring gaps, timing, & make damn sure it's not excessively lean.

    If you think that you might be tempted to run more bottle someday, I'd move up to a better piston, Diamond, JE, or other.

    8) You may find that it is more cost effective to run Eagle SIR rods or Scat rods rather than have your stock rods reworked & paying for ARP bolts. This is the trend nowadays..the "entry point" rods aren't all that much stronger than the stock Ford rods, but all the work is done, they have ARPs to begin with, & the final cost is the same, or close.

    Hope that helps. :)
     

  5. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,003

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you can find them, my '69 Lincoln 460 had small chamber heads and screw in studs from the factory. I got a cheap BBC stud kit (I think) and BBC roller rockers, used a Crower Cam, don't remember the numbers but it was flat tappet and big lift, used Offy Port-O-Sonic single plane 4bbl. Ran good
     
  6. T-Time
    Joined: Jan 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,627

    T-Time
    Member
    from USA

    I'm in almost complete agreement with Homespun91.

    However, as to carb size, I might disagree a bit. In dyno tests, the 385 series engines tend to make a lot more horsepower with huge carbs. But, it has been my experience (and I've been running 385's for almost 30 years) that you get more actual speed/quickness from a smaller carb on these engines. That is, lower ET's in the quarter, and higher top speed. I don't know why this varies from the dyno tests. I have no explanation for it. The best carb that I have found for a street/strip combo (non-stroker) is the Holley spreadbore double-pumper with mechanical secondaries in a 650 cfm size.
     
  7. spudz
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 531

    spudz
    Member

    It will get a good pump as its gettin a 7qrt pan.. I wasn't WANTING to get new heads.. But machine work is gonna be a must for em. THANKS EVERYONE!!!! and I'll check those sites out
     
  8. I wouldn't disagree with this. :D

    I tend to recommend the 750 VS a lot for a couple of reasons. Like I said, easy to tune, pretty close, but also...easy for a novice...and, easy to find used. Be that as it may, it is a universal carb, & as such, not always optimal.

    So far as using a smaller carburetor, yep...could be. It' s helped in many other situations, for sure. A 650 would probably have a bit sharper throttle response (even assuming the 750 has the right pump nozzle, cam, & so on) just because of the smaller venturi....and, a lot of those 650 spreadbores have dog leg boosters or in a few cases the annular boosters, which may help...especially on a Port-O-Sonic, which used to be almost the only game in town. A 650 dp s-bore might also help on a Stealth, if the engine was fairly stock & a 460/466, or the cam had a fairly wide LSA & not much overlap (i.e. mild).

    Without knowing more about a particular vehicle, the cam in question, the heads, the gearing & converter, & so on, I'd be hard pressed to argue the point one way or t'other.;) And it never hurts to experiment.

    So far as the heads go, spudz, you can go a couple of ways. As RichFox mentioned, the earlier head can be used. It is relatively easy to just install screw-in studs (most, not all, BBC studs will work) & guideplates. Some rockers will require that the bosses be cut down about .200 or so, & some won't. I can say that the Crane gold/FRPP blue/Trick Flow black roller rockers, which are all the same thing (or were), will work with most situations without requiring the mill.

    The problem with these heads, if there is one, is that they are perceived as being "better" than later heads, & so they tend to be high-priced. The D0VE & D0VE-A heads go for often $300/pair or more. However, the older C8VE & C9VE heads are functionally identical & go for a lot less...& the C8VEs are almost never drilled for the Thermactor, which saves a bit of work.

    What isn't commonly known is that the late D3VE heads, which are dirt cheap, are essentially the same head, with the chamber sunk farther into the head to enlarge it. This changes the port entry/exit angles a bit, makes it impossible to rework the exhaust port as much, and in MAX EFFORT situations, the D3VEs give up a bit of power. For a street or bracket engine it makes no difference, & pistons are available for either chamber to get about any compression you want. Unless you find a pair of older C8/C9/D0VE heads very cheap, it's not worth it to search them out. Avoid the D2VE heads if you find them....but D2OE & D0OE heads are worth grabbing. To put it mildly.

    Where the C8/C9/D0VE heads come in handy is to cheaply raise compression on a later shortblock without rebuilding anything...although it doesn't solve the quench issue, because the stock 460 pistons still sit quite a ways down from the deck.
     
  9. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,003

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not to be contrary, and my motor had a pretty wild cam, 12.5 CR and ran on the long course, but I went from a 800 Holley to an 1150 dominator and the motor loved it. Not a street driver though.
     
  10. T-Time
    Joined: Jan 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,627

    T-Time
    Member
    from USA

    Yep. That's the bottom line on carbs (and cams, and a lot of other parts, too).
     
  11. Vicious_Cycle
    Joined: Mar 27, 2006
    Posts: 107

    Vicious_Cycle
    Member

    I believe HOT ROD (or was it Car Craft?:confused: ) just did a 460 build within the last 6 months or so. It had part numbers and technical tips. I'll see if I can find it tonight and let you know what issue. I might have pitched it by now though.
     
  12. spudz
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 531

    spudz
    Member

    Ok man that would be great.. I always wanted to build one of these... Once its done... then it will be my first time building a C6!! I built a A4OD before, and from what i hear is just an overdrive c6..
     
  13. flathead okie
    Joined: May 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,480

    flathead okie
    Member

    I emaileda friend who owns nothing but 460 powered toys. here's what he sent me,
    sure post this
    460 i had built for my truck
    stock crank stock truck rods(same as cj) football heads with arp bolts give the rods a little extra side clearence. the mellings HV oil pump will be plenty get a timing chain from a 70 model 429 later 1's retard the cam.pistons TRW 2404 with D3 heads will be 8 to 8.5 to 1 thing will run on water almost you can balance it i have on some and not on others cant really tell a diff but thats a personal choice.cam was a comp link below

    http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=34-330-4
    http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=34-331-4
    top 1 dont sound as bad as 2nd 1 but there about same cam i've run both in pretty much same motors and they run the same.heads motor had D3s on it with bumps knocked out and PI size vavles 2.19in 1.76ex and just a little work on ex port just right under vavles and with these heads i used stock push rods& vavle train never had any problems its still running around town and was built in 1999 . intake was a Weiand Stealth Intake Manifold
    8012 topped with a holley 750 VS. tranny if you've done a E40D a c-6 is a cake walk it is a c-6 with OD heres some good reading from 460ford.com on trans
    http://460ford.com/viewtopic.php?p=65062&highlight=#65062
    http://460ford.com/viewtopic.php?p=64906&highlight=#64906
    http://460ford.com/viewtopic.php?p=71617&highlight=#71617
    with that said as i said at the start i built this motor for my 79 F100 to drive EVERYDAY and i did till i sold it two years ago but for a short time i did have it in my stationwagon for about 8 months that weighed 3450 with me in it. took it to the track once just to see what a pump gas motor would run with a true 250 shot on NOS on it and with a stock converter no stall just 1500rpm and the c-6 with roller bearings in it i did step it up to 93 octane back when we could still get it here.it run a10.60 @129mph in a 1/4 and with the reworked governor i left it in drive. these things love NOS just be sure to keep fuel pressure if you've run NOS before you'll know how to start out with it . i love the stuff cause drive it runs good and with a flick of a switch you've got a racecar turn it off its a street car again
    good luck
    john
    1984 LTD wagon best of 9.23@149mph in a car i drove to work
     
  14. spudz
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 531

    spudz
    Member

    WOW that is some impressive numbers!!!! thats what I am looking for!
     
  15. Vicious_Cycle
    Joined: Mar 27, 2006
    Posts: 107

    Vicious_Cycle
    Member

    Hey spudz-
    That article I was thinking of was in the February '07 HOT ROD. Unfortunately, the engine they built was the Ford 400; not the 460. Sorry about that!

    So I dug around through some of my old magazines for a few minutes to see if I could find anything else.

    There is a one-page article in the November '06 Car Craft, where they punched a 460 out to 466, put an Edelbrock top end on it and made 514 horsepower. I'm sure it's more high-buck than you're looking to go, though. It reads like a Edelbrock/Summit Racing advertisement, and it looks like they spent about $2500 to make that power. That article also makes reference to a Feb '06 CC article where they made 500 HP with a 460, but I don't have that one. That might be a good one for you to dig up though.

    As if that 466 wasn't expensive enough, I found one even more expen$ive in the June '07 Car Craft. They built a 10:1 compression, 521-inch 460-based motor with Blue Thunder heads. It made over 630 horsepower and 650 lb-ft of torque, but you had better bring a damn big wallet with ya!

    Sorry I couldn't come up with anything useful, but I tried!

    -Garry
     
  16. spudz
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 531

    spudz
    Member

    THANKS FOR THE HARD WORK GARRY!!! your the man... When I go to build this thing, I plan on having a budget of around 2,000-2,500.. I've still got a few projects in front of it that I am going to finish but I always like to get my ducks in a row before the build.. THANKS EVERYBODY!
     

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