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Projects 1964 Cadillac transmission

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by stevechaos13, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    It is officially a 62 series.
     
  2. Bzeldo
    Joined: Apr 1, 2016
    Posts: 14

    Bzeldo
    Member

    You are correct about the 63 being a sort of one off year for the 390. The 64 - 67 429 years are a bit tricky with what can be matched up with what.
     
  3. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,975

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Why not put in a Chev 350 and TH400 and keep the hood closed? Easy and cheap, enough power to move around, and a little better mileage than the big Cad.
     
  4. coupe33
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 564

    coupe33
    Member

    I thought I would post again.The website for parts 63/64 Cad is Classic Cadillac Parts to get a replacement transmission. Owned and run by Jason Edge Garner NC. I found out a lot about these two years of Cadillac from Jason. If you decide to keep it all the way it is is always cheaper than going with a SBC and you can keep your hood open.
     
  5. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    See, I've been told that an SBC isn't big enough to motivate that 2+ ton behemoth.
     
  6. coupe33
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 564

    coupe33
    Member

    They are right way to big for a SBC. A 429 is about right and if all you need is a transmission or an adapter it would be the least expensive.
     
  7. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    So I finally had a chance to get back into this thing and have finally found my answer.
    This car was originally equipped with a hydramatic, not the early Turbo Hydramatic.
    Jason Edge over at 63-64 cadillac has most of the other parts I need, but not the trans.
    I don't know anything about GM, but I recall that the Hydramatic was built for a long while. Problem is that I can't find any for sale in my age range. They're all older.
    What sort of interchangeability is there with those transmissions? Will early years work?

    Sent from my SM-N920T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  8. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,581

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    You can buy an adapter for Chevy or BOP pattern trans from a couple of sources, Wil-Cap for one and I believe Bendtsen's has them www.transmissionadapters.com . There may be others out there as well.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
  9. There's a Jetaway from a '64 Caddy limo on Ebay right now. That should be your poison. You just need to source a driveshaft. Any used tranny will need a rebuild, only a couple hundred $ of parts from Fatsco and it's really not that difficult, actually kinda fun to learn. IMG_1474374020.871547.jpg

    The '61 through '64 is said to interchange but I am skeptical, I would try to get the proper year.
     
    stevechaos13 likes this.
  10. I know when I tried to pop a '61 Jetaway onto a '60 390 (supposedly bolt on) neither starter would work (until I grinded 1/2 the case away)
     
  11. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    Thanks clunker. I hadn't come across that one yet.
    The driveshaft isn't really an issue, I've already got that sorted out.
    As for the rebuild, yeah, I pretty much figured that was a given.

    Sent from my SM-N920T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    clunker likes this.
  12. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,581

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Your car, your money, your choice.........but I think you would be better off in the long run with a quality adapter and a TH400 or 700R4. The associated components, i.e., torque converter, starter, etc. are easier to deal with and more plentiful.

    Ray
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  13. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    You're of course right in those points, and that's ideally what I was thinking to do, but the driveshaft and crank differences between the 429 that was built for the TH versus the regular are what has me worried.
    So far the problem seems to be that everything I think of changing means I have to change 3 or 4 major components at the same time.
    From 63-64 cadillac

    "While the hydramatic drive plate with the 3 3/16" center opening will mount right up to Turbo Hydarmatic crank since the bolt patterns are the same, there is a gap and will usually rip out in short order.
    ==> the Turbo Hydramatic flex plate opening has to be opened up to exactly 3 3/16" to mount to the Hydramatic crank end and...if it is not exactly centered and a snug fit it to will quickly rip out"
    => Front driveshaft section on TH equipped cars is longer (putting a TH in a 63 or 64 limos requires the front drive shaft section from a 1965 limo)
    ==> Front cross member Yaw Mounts and the rear transmission mount are different
    ==> Starters were different
    ==> 1964 Turbo Hydramatic has adaptor ring, hydramatic doesn't
    ==> TH uses electric kick-down switch, Hydramatic used the TV Rod
    ==> Instrument cluster shift indicator display (PRNDL on TH and PND1D2LR on Hydramatic.
    ==> Hydramatic uses a drive plate that mounts to the torus while Turbo Hydramatic has flexplate with starter gear teeth that mounts to the torque converter
    ==> turbo Hydrmatic had vacuum line from vacuum modulator up to vacuum fitting on back of carb where brake power booster connects
    ==> Neutral Safety switch is different if swap out is in a 64, due to different in shift pattern

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  14. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    My thinking is that I'm going to look for the correct pieces for awhile longer, and if I can't locate them all then I'm going to just swap the whole powertrane.

    Sent from my SM-N920T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  15. I had a '64 Caddy Deville with a 429 and TH400, that thing was a monster. I loved it. I now have a '60 Deville with a 390 and a Jetaway, (same internals as the '64 Jetaway). This thing is a monster, I love it.

    When my tranny got stuck in 1st, I tried buying a tranny from a running '61 and popping it in. I found it wasn't a direct bolt in, stuff needed tweaking and that one was stuck in low gear too! I wanted everything to work together properly, and figured GM had done all the engineering, I didn't want to mess with altering driveshafts or angles, mounts, etc. and the so I just rebuilt my original myself with a kit from Fatsco, the shop manual, a few hand tools and this blog for inspiration:http://www.photopaige.com/edscars/60caddy/CaddyWebSitev2_files/TrannyRebuild2.htm
    I had to do it twice because I am lazy and cut a few corners the first time (take every component all the way down). No one has ever accused me of being smart, but I was able to figure it out and it was fun, and the way the Jetaway was designed internally was really interesting. To me the Jetaway shifts smoother than the TH400, IMHO, and once it's sorted should operate for another 50 years. It now works great, and with the original drivetrain I am able to basically chug around at idle, and get 17mpg on the hi way. If someone wrecks my car and I can use the 390 in a model A build or something I will definitely get an adapter and use a 5 speed standard or something, but these Caddys are so awesome I love them how they are. IMG_1474383497.224226.jpg
    Fins are In, man

    The advantage of the TH400 is that it has a torque converter and the Jetaway has a fluid coupling. I can't speak to how much this translates into horse power at the wheels but these boats weigh 5000 lbs so it may or may not make much of a difference in the 1/4 mile. Maybe someone else has a better idea.
     
  16. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    Thanks clunker. That's pretty much along the lines of what I'm thinking. I'm not trying to build a rod out of it. I just want to cruise it as efficiently as possible...and by efficient I don't mean fuel economy. I just don't really want to have to do a ton of fab work and such if I don't have to.

    Sent from my SM-N920T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  17. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 812

    BigDogSS
    Member
    from SoCal

    I agree, find the correct Hydra-Matic transmission for your car.
     
  18. Bad Eye Bill
    Joined: Sep 1, 2010
    Posts: 841

    Bad Eye Bill
    Member
    from NB Canada


    I'd never heard of a Caddy Park Avenue. Googled it...... it's true. Thanks, I learned something today.
     
  19. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,581

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Not wishing to beat a dead horse here, but you seem to believe an adapter for a TH400 trans somehow gets all complicated. I don't think that is the case. The adapter kit includes all the bits needed to bolt on a TH400, (or other TH series trans with the same case pattern). The driveshaft is not included and that would require one to be modified or built.

    I have such an adapter (on the shelf) from Wil-Cap for my '63 390 (ex-Jetaway), which shares the same crank and block patterns as your 429. I am NOT offering it for sale here, only telling you that to indicate I have some basis for my suggestion about using a TH400. I bought mine at the same time as a good friend who ordered one to replace the OE trans in a very nice '59 on which he was doing some restoration work.

    I am not faulting you for wanting to install an original type unit, if you can relatively easily do so, but it does seem finding the combination of very specific parts to do that is quite challenging.

    Whatever your decision, I wish you the best outcome.

    Ray
     
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  20. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    Thanks for the advice Ray.
    Most of my reluctance about the swap is in the crank differences between the TH setup and the Hydramatic setup. Does the adapter kit address that?

    Sent from my SM-N920T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  21. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,581

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Yes.

    I am going to be out of town tomorrow, maybe until midday Thursday, but I will TRY to remember to photograph the parts in my kit and post them upon my return.

    Ray
     
  22. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 812

    BigDogSS
    Member
    from SoCal

    Here is Wilcap's website: http://www.wilcap.com/ . Lots of good info here. click on the Cadillac tab on the upper right.
     
  23. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,581

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    IMG_0149.JPG

    Here is a photo of the content page of the instructions of my Wil-Cap kit. As you will see, there is a crank flange adapter and flywheel/flexplate, a block to trans case adapter and various other misc parts. Easy peasy! :)

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  24. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    Thanks Hnstray.
    I have been able to locate a hydramatic and the correct driveshaft for the car. So hopefully it'll all work out. I'm supposed to pick them up in a couple of weeks, so wish me luck.

    Sent from my SM-N920T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  25. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,581

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Glad you found the parts....Best Wishes with your project. Let us know when you have it on the road.

    Ray
     
  26. 64Kaddy
    Joined: Jun 3, 2011
    Posts: 130

    64Kaddy
    Member
    from SoCal

    I have three 1964 TH400 transmissions.
    I also have a seized 1964 429 engine That came with the TH400.
    I'm thinking of setting one aside with the ring spacer, flywheel and crank from the engine for someone that is interested in swapping the hydromatic to a TH400 on their 64 cadillac
     
  27. 64Kaddy
    Joined: Jun 3, 2011
    Posts: 130

    64Kaddy
    Member
    from SoCal

    Be patience. They're out there and should be cheap for a core.
     

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