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Projects 1964 Cadillac transmission

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by stevechaos13, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    Hey guys, haven't been on in awhile and was hoping someone might be able to help me sort something out.
    I recently picked up a 64 Cadillac for next to nothing, and it's about 80 percent complete. Two items that walked away in the time it sat parked were the trans and the driveshaft. I've never been a GM guy, so I know next to nothing about what was used in what. I've researched it a bit and keep coming up with conflicting info about what trans I need for this beast. I've been told that any TH400 will work, and I've been told I need a certain one. Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
    It's going behind a 429...
     
  2. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 812

    BigDogSS
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    from SoCal

  3. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,094

    d2_willys
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    from Kansas

    64 cadillacs used TH400 on some models, DC hydramatic on others. You will need to find out what trans went with your model.
     
  4. Fedman
    Joined: Dec 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,164

    Fedman
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    Was the 64 a one off model as far as the engine (parts) and tranny bolt pattern?
    Foggy memory on this, but I am sure some of the stuff is unique to the year.
     
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  5. blue57ford
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 491

    blue57ford
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    I believe that the 429 Cadillac THM 400 was a case all to its own. I think it was used from 64-67.
     
  6. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
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    See, that's the confusion. I've read that the th400 in the 64 was a one year only as they redisgined the whole thing in 65. I'm pretty sure that mine is the th400 car, and that's probably why it's missing. I can't imagine why someone would want the DC hydramatic out of what's an essentially complete, straight car. If it's was the TH400 I can see someone robbing it.
    My main concern is that if I go out and buy a TH400 that it fits without massive adapting, since I'd be money ahead to buy a 64 trans and have it rebuilt than to buy a th400 that doesn't fit, have it rebuilt and then spend who knows how much making it fit.
     
  7. Fedman
    Joined: Dec 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,164

    Fedman
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    I think that you have it correct, 1 year only mounting bolt pattern for the TH400 and that is why someone grabbed yours......
    If your engine is good ( I would really make sure on this) then I would try and find the correct TH400 and do a rebuild on it rather than trying to adapt something to it.
    Good luck with it! :)
     
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  8. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 812

    BigDogSS
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    from SoCal

    Question: What does your shifter pattern look like? If it had a TH400, it would read "PRNDL". The Hydra-Matic shifter pattern would be something like "PND1D2LR".
    It looks as though the 64 TH400 used an adapter ring from the factory.

    Speedway Motors sells an adapter kit for any Chevrolet auto transmissions.

    Also, there are some 64 Caddy transmissions and parts on eBay.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  9. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
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    The shift pattern is PNDLR.
     
  10. the violator
    Joined: Sep 10, 2008
    Posts: 146

    the violator
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    from reading pa

    With that shift pattern your car was not a th400 car. 64s are a pain with all the changes that year, as someone already said be sure the engine is good before finding a trans for it. If I was in your position I'd be looking for a 472-500 with a trans to swap in.
     
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  11. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,716

    theHIGHLANDER
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    You're sure it's a 64? I seem to recall 63 was the pivotal year, 2 transmissions, a unique 390...?
     
  12. dad-bud
    Joined: Aug 22, 2009
    Posts: 3,886

    dad-bud
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    I'm with the violator, unless you're planning a high-end resto, and being this is a hot rod site, an engine and trans swap makes a lot of sense.
    Keeping it Cadillac lets you use any of the later large capacity stockers, otherwise you could use just about anything that is available.
    Given the cavernous engine bay, I'm sure there are many possibilities, including late model powerplants with modern overdrive transmissions. I realise I'm now going to get flamed for such blasphemy, but pulling a complete engine and trans from a late model wreck makes a lot of sense from a cost and parts availability POV.
    JMHO
     
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  13. krazee
    Joined: Nov 3, 2011
    Posts: 53

    krazee
    Member

    I can take some photo's on the weekend if you like. My setup came from a '64 Fleetwood (correct engine and trans nos) and the engine has an adaptor ring on it and I believe the T400 is a BOP pattern. Evidently there was a fire in the caddie plant so they used the Buick/Olds T400 in '64. Mine runs the short tail housing, the filler tube mounts on the side of the case instead of the top and as stated above the D1 only engages from stationary. I don't have a filler tube so it you have a photo that would be great. I posted on here looking for this type of info a while back but only received a lot of conflicting info.
     
  14. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,094

    d2_willys
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    from Kansas

    Olds did not use the TH400 till 1965. Buick used what is called ST400 in 64 and was single range 3 speed (PRNDL). Cadillac used this transmission on some models in 1964. The bell housing pattern is strictly a Cadillac pattern. 1963 390 engines were different from 1959-62. They however used the same bell housing from 1955-64. In 1965-67, I believe the 429 of those years was different than the earlier bell housings. Only in 1968 did Cadillac start using the BOP pattern.

    Buick continued to use the old nailhead bell pattern for 1964-66, then went to the BOP.

    Your chance of getting a ST400 (TH400) for 1964 Cadillac are slim to none. My feeling is that you should probably find a TH400 with BOP bell housing and proper length, then adapt to the 429 engine. The other idea of using a 472 or 500 engine eliminates the adapter, and probably will bolt right in. Those engines do have BOP pattern.
     
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  15. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 812

    BigDogSS
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    from SoCal

    Did you read my link above? It outlines the differences in 1963/64 engines/transmissions.
    Question to OP --> What model Cadillac is this?
     
  16. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,630

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Bought a Cad Eldo front wheel drive 472 mill, bolted it to a Buick Riv TH400.
    Planted it in a strong old O/T 3/4T F100, to pull the 4,000 lb. Streamliner back and forth San Jose-Bonneville. 472 had 'low compression' symptoms, poor mileage, low performance.
    One trip and out came the 472, in went a 500. Rings/brgs valve grind, superb performance!
    On the long road from Ely Nev to Wendover average 95 MPH, like the 'liner wasn't even back there!
    Liner ran TWO 500 C.I. Cadillacs... great engines. (460 Ford intake fits with 'spacers'...)
    IF you decide on a whole package, this is the way to go. (one 500" Cad, not two)
     
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  17. southerncad
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 659

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  18. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,094

    d2_willys
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    from Kansas

  19. coupe33
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 559

    coupe33
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    The 64 Cad is unique. They used 2 transmissions and the 400 had a cast spacer adaptor to go from the back of the block and they borrowed the Buick th 400 transmission. There is a web site for 64/65 Cad and the guy running the site usually has a couple of them. If I remember right his name was Jason. I believe the 429 changed the back of the block the next year so the spacer was no longer needed. If the spacer is missing let me know I have one I never used.
     
  20. coupe33
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 559

    coupe33
    Member

    One last note Jason Edge for the tranny (st 400) I believe North or South Carolina. The hard part was the flex plate. I spent 7 years looking for 1 before I picked up a 72 472 Cad and th 400 and just got the 472 rebuilt and ended the problem.
     
  21. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    Glad to see that my confusion isn't just that I'm not reading all the info right.
    Honestly my first thought was to do a little searching, but probably end up doing a swap if I couldn't luck across one. Then I started hearing that a th400 was all I needed, which conflicted everything else I'd read.
    The car is in pretty darn good shape and pretty damn complete. It's a more door, but I actually prefer more doors for cruiser rides. I have next to nothing in this car, so plunking down whatever I need to fix the missing trans problem isn't a huge deal as long as I don't have to do it twice.
    As for the model, I'm not 100 sure. It's not badged, and I haven't tried to figure it out yet. I picked this thing up late last summer, and haven't even touched it yet, save for to pull the radiator and drain the coolant.
     
  22. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,716

    theHIGHLANDER
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    Most likely a Sedan DeVille, not sure when they did the Calais. It might be a Park Avenue. 64 was the last year for that one.


    [Anxiously awaiting the shit storm over the Park Avenue.]
     
  23. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    So with the info I've received here, I'm definitely leaning more and more towards a swap. Suggestions on what setup I should keep an eye out for? 479 or 500 of course, but what years? Anything else? I know I'm going to have to do some fab work, and I'm fine with that. I also don't have a driveshaft, so retaining one isn't an issue, since I'd already planned on having one made.
     
  24. coupe33
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 559

    coupe33
    Member

    The Cad 472 started in 1968 and ended in 1976. They had the 500 in all models 75/76 front wheel drive and rear wheel drive. The 472 and 500 are the same block the crankshaft makes the difference. The 72 and earlier (68)heads are the best (non smog). The aluminum intake reduces the weight down to the small block chevy. Also the 77/79 has a 425 CI that is much easier to find. These are no longer cheap to build and 1 company I dealt with was Maximum torque.
     
  25. coupe33
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 559

    coupe33
    Member

    Ok
    I keep missing stuff. I used a regular side biscuit (like the old Fords) to put a 472 in my 34 truck, if you want a bolt in unit there are a couple companies that make them. One thing you will need a different oil pan depending what vehicle the engine is going into. They used 3 different oil pans, I probably still have a couple left and a copy of the Hurst engine engine mount. I went trough all this stuff a few years ago.
     
  26. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 812

    BigDogSS
    Member
    from SoCal

    I was checking out the brochures for the 1964 Cadillac and it looks to me like you have the "Series 62" model.
    http://oldcarbrochures.org/NA/Cadillac/1964-Cadillac/1964-Cadillac-Prestige-Brochure
    I'm no Cad expert and from what I read, but not limited to, this model had:
    • The Hydra-Matic transmission.
    • No model emblem on the outside.
    • Power windows and seats were optional.
    Is your car a "4-window" or "6-window" sedan?
     
  27. i have yet to see a late 50s or 60s cad with hand crank main side windows. and as weird as it sounds... how many cigarette lighters does it have? de villes and fleetwoods have at least three. series 62 has one.
    in the eighties i tried to bolt in a '69 cad turbo 400 to a '67 cad 429. no go. bellhousing pattern different. (had to rebuild that '67 transmission.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  28. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419

    stevechaos13
    Member

    Mine isn't a 6 window, and does have power seats and windows.
     
  29. krazee
    Joined: Nov 3, 2011
    Posts: 53

    krazee
    Member

    Ok, here are some photos of the Buick sourced T400 and adaptor ring of a '64 Fleetwood 429.
    The adaptor ring is 1 1/4" thick. 010.JPG 011.JPG 012.JPG
    Note the black plug on the side of the trans, this where the fill tube and I assume the trans dip
    stick go. The TH400 fill tube and dip stick mounts just above on top.
    Does anyone have a photo of the T400 fill tube?
    010.JPG 010.JPG 010.JPG 010.JPG 010.JPG
     
  30. your model number will be a 4 digit code on the firewall- something like 6337- from the shop manual you will be able to work it out. I think I can get my hands on one to have a look, but not for a couple of weeks.
     

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