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Technical 1964 C10 handling woes

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by NAES, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 484

    NAES
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Hey guys I've been driving my recently resurrected truck as much as practical the latter part of this year trying to shake loose all the bugs. I've got her running right and stopping well but she is a handful to drive. The ride is harsh no matter the air spring settings and on shitty roads it feels like I'm going to shake her apart. I'm no stranger to driving sketchy cars but rebuilding everything with the best parts I can get hasn't helped the situation.

    Here's a quick list of what I have.
    Front frame Z, pancaked crossmember, cupped lower arms, short street rod shocks and all new USA made Moog front end parts coming off the steering box.
    Rear Z, bags in the stock spring location, shocks mounted so there is plenty of travel wether all up or aired out.

    Stock drums all around on old bias ply tires. I need new tires as these ones are weather checked and if its the bias plys giving me hell then I'll sacrifice the look for radials.

    I realize this is an old truck and all the suspension modifications up to this point doesn't help the situation but every other truck built like mine can't possibly be this bad......can it?

    Thanks all, NAES



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  2. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Do you have four separate air lines, one to each bag, or are the front bags, or rear bags, or both pairs connected together with a T-fitting?
     
  3. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 484

    NAES
    Member

    Separate lines for the front 2 bags. A single line with a T for the rear.

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  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Split the rear lines, and run separate ones. Running a T allows one bag to dump all of its air into the opposite one in a corner. Zero body roll control.

    What exact models of bags are you running?

    Do you still have a front anti-sway bar?

    How old are the shocks, and how are they mounted?

    What tire pressure?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
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  5. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 484

    NAES
    Member

    I definitely have rear body roll issues as sometimes the edge of the bumper will drag around corners so I'll pick up another valve manifold at Pomona this weekend and run separate controls for the rear.

    No front sway bar. I don't remember having one originally but its been a while since I blew the front end apart.

    Front shocks are in the stock location. Just shortie hot rod shocks. Less than 2 years old.

    Rears are mounted off the trailing arms to a pair of welded tabs on directly above the rear axle. They are vertical when viewed from the rear. Tops are about 10* leaned back when viewed from the side.

    Universal air single below up fron, Universal air double below out back.

    Tire pressure is 32-34psi all around.

    Thanks for the help so far

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  6. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
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    Drop the tire pressure to 25. 32-34 is radial pressure.

    Do you know the diameter of the bags?
     
  7. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 484

    NAES
    Member

    Fronts

    Single Convoluted Air Spring.
    Designed for Front & Rear Suspension on Mini Trucks, Hot Rods and Most Sport Cars.
    2.0" Compressed
    8.5" Extended 5.875" Diameter
    Bags made from Synthetic rubber to be resistant against Oil and breakdown that will ruin Natural Rubber.

    Rears

    Double Convoluted Air Spring.
    Designed for Rear Suspension on Mini Trucks, Light Duty, and Subframe Vehicles
    3" Compressed 11.0" Extended 5.875" Diameter
    Bags made from Synthetic rubber to be resistant against Oil and breakdown that will ruin Natural Rubber

    OK. I'll have time to mess with it on Friday and report back on what changing the tire pressure does.

    Again, these tires are really old so I'm thinking they're contributing to my problems.

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  8. I would start with replacing the old tires, are you upgrading to radials?
    What alignment specs did you use on the front suspension?
     
  9. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 484

    NAES
    Member

    I agree with you flt-blk that the tires are part of my problem. I prefer the look of the bias plys but not at the expense of poor handling. But $500 or more is a lot to spend without ruling out everything else first.

    As for the alignment specs, I don't know what the settings are. That being said, she tracks straight on smooth roads with minmal bumpsteer at any ride height. Steering tightens up the lower I go though.

    NAES

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  10. I also think the tires are not helping you out. Couple more items to ask questions:
    1. What air pressure in bags, are they near max pressure or do they have some give and travel?
    2. Are the front shocks bottoming out by chance? What about bump stops hitting?
     
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  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You need to make sure that the shocks are neither bottoming, nor topping out during normal operation, at ride height.

    If they have exposed shafts, the easiest way to check for this is to jack up the chassis, and let the suspension droop. If it does not droop at-least about 3-4" from ride height, then you have a problem.
     
  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
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  13. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,026

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Affirmed
    Also, not having seen how the overall suspension (front and rear) is layed out (or laid out), I'm wondering if some of the components aren't within there pivot/articulation range.
    The increased "tight steering" when fully lowered has me thinking something is binding.
     
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  14. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 484

    NAES
    Member

    I don't have air gauges but the suspension has plenty of movement at ride height. When completely aired out the truck rides on the bumpstops inside the bags. Shocks still have travel past the fully articulation of the suspension.

    There is some binding in the steering when aired out. The tierod ends are flipped to help with the extreme angles.

    The ride issues are when at cruising height. Somewhere in the middle of aired up and aired out.

    I run those Cokers shown by Gimpyshotrods on my Chrysler. They're awesome to drive on. Very comfey.

    I'll be tire hunting at Pomona as well as air management shopping on Sunday.

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  15. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
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    Flipping the tie rods will make handing worse.
     
  16. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 484

    NAES
    Member

    I'll snap a few pics tomorrow to show how the front end is set up. I figured flipping the tie rods would keep the suspension from binding and excessive toe in at full drop. At ride height they are almost horizontal. If they were placed on top of the steering arms they would bind and not allow suspension movement. At least that was my thinking.

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  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You introduced been more bump steer by doing this.

    The proper way to get the last few inches of drop is a drop spindle.
     
  18. bigpokie
    Joined: Oct 23, 2011
    Posts: 142

    bigpokie
    Member

    I assume your running 12v valves. To help reduce body roll use 8, 2 per corner. A sway bar will help for sure also. Gauges aren't a requirement but they help to "show" where your truck rides. With gauges your can get close to a consistent ride height. For instance, my OT truck rides at 90 in the front and 30 in the rear. And shocks front AND rear. The only thing I'm not sure about is the single bellow bags. I've always ran slam specialties bags. They are firmer than most brands which helps with the squishy ride. Pics will help for sure.
     
  19. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 484

    NAES
    Member

    Ok I lagged in posting but I did make a few changes for the better IMO. I scored some new radials at Pomona for dirt cheap. Those along with moving my rear shock mounts to allow about 2" bag movement beyond full bag inflation really helped ride quality. The company I got the valves from was out of the style I have. They'll let me know when they have them back in.

    I know dropped spindles are one way to go (and probably the best) but I from the reading I had done previously, the crossmember pancake and front frame Z have allowed other truck owners to lay all the way out. I attached some pics and correct me if I'm wrong, but moving the tie rod ends to the top of the steering arms would have more issues than what I have going on now.

    Fully aired up
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Aired out. (Lower arm notched to clear steering)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And since I'm being a post whore, here she is with the new shoes
    [​IMG]

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