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Projects 1960-63 falcon fender fasterner

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tarpkir, Nov 13, 2021.

  1. tarpkir
    Joined: Jul 13, 2009
    Posts: 6

    tarpkir
    Member

    I disassembled a 63 Falcon 15 years ago. Now I'm putting it back together.
    The bottom of the fender has a bracket where it meets the rocker panel.
    A bolt goes through the bracket and attaches to the rocker panel.
    On the rocker panel is a rectangular hole about 1/2"x 3/4".
    Inside this rectangular hole is supposed to be some type of nut.
    Trying to figure out what will fit there.
    It's not designed for a fold over nut.
    I'm thinking cage nut. I just order some.
    Anyone with a Falcon know for sure what's used for the nut inside the rectangle?
     
  2. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
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    A stud goes on the fender, in the vertical support. That stud goes through the hole in the body. A captive flange washer nut goes on the stud from inside the car. There is a body plug in the inner rocker, behind the kick panel.

    Actually, there are two. There is one about 18-inches above, for another stud.

    My '60 is apart at the shop right now. I am home for lunch, but will be heading back down there shortly. I can take some pictures for you.
     
  3. I'll bet that it was originally a threaded steel square spot welded in the hole. This is a pretty common issue on old Fords, the bolt seizes in the threads and either the bolt breaks or the insert tears out. They did use cage nuts sometimes too, but generally not...
     
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
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  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There is no threaded insert there, or cage nut, or u-nut.

    There are two studs on the fender. The holes on the body are just holes. The studs go through the holes, and are attached by nuts in the passenger compartment.
     
  6. Yeah, Ford was in love with those NF bolts for body assembly in that era too.
     
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
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    This photo shows the hole for the upper stud, in the center of the black pad, with the access hole to the passenger compartment behind it.

    The one below it is much the same, just out of sight.
    PXL_20210824_030705671.jpg
     
    2Blue2 likes this.
  8. tiredford
    Joined: Apr 6, 2009
    Posts: 546

    tiredford
    Member
    from Mo.

    I'm not familiar with that exact thing. But I worked on a Ford assembly line for many years. The hole you describe is for a clip that pops in. The clip has the nut built in it. Put millions of them in.
     
  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
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    Yup, 5/16-24. No brackets, no clips. Just through holes.

    PXL_20211113_212447362.jpg PXL_20211113_212457983.jpg PXL_20211113_211624362.jpg PXL_20211113_211738431.jpg PXL_20211113_211639063.jpg
     
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  10. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
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    You would not be able to access it on a Falcon.
     
  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
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    From inside.
    PXL_20211113_213346482.jpg PXL_20211113_213404228.jpg
     
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  12. kabinenroller
    Joined: Jan 26, 2012
    Posts: 737

    kabinenroller
    Member

    There should be a small steel rectangle in the lower part of the rocker panel with a 5/16 x24 threaded hole, the rectangle “floats” in the opening to allow for adjustments and shims. All pre 1965 Comets/Falcons used fine thread fasteners.
    Jim
     
  13. tarpkir
    Joined: Jul 13, 2009
    Posts: 6

    tarpkir
    Member

    Thanks for all of the great replies. I've taken a snippet of a picture that 'gimpyshotrods' added. There is a bolt from the fender that goes through this hole, as many have mentioned. But the hole is just a pass through, to allow room for the bolt. Attached to that bold is a bracket that rolls under the rocker. Just below this hole in the picture is the rectangle in question that the bracket attaches to. You would have to be on the floor looking up to see it. Guess I need to run out and take some pictures to post myself.

    upload_2021-11-13_16-45-17.png
     
  14. tarpkir
    Joined: Jul 13, 2009
    Posts: 6

    tarpkir
    Member

    kabinenroller posted
    "There should be a small steel rectangle in the lower part of the rocker panel with a 5/16 x24 threaded hole, the rectangle “floats” in the opening to allow for adjustments and shims. "

    That's exactly what I'm thinking. Question is: Is this part available or unobtainium? Or is it just a simple cage nut.
     
  15. kabinenroller
    Joined: Jan 26, 2012
    Posts: 737

    kabinenroller
    Member

    One of mine fell out when the body was at the strippers/ecoater. I used an insert from a caged nut (with cage) and tack welded it in the hole. It worked perfectly and was almost undetectable, plus I had nice fresh threads to secure the bottom of the fender.
     
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
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    My '60 had not ever been apart since it left the San Jose plant.

    It had no such steel rectangle, on either side. I have never seen one on any round body Falcon that I have dismantled.

    Just a stud on the fender, maybe some shims (or not), and a nut on the inside.

    The fender pictured is from 1961.
     
  17. 41fordor
    Joined: Nov 9, 2008
    Posts: 83

    41fordor
    Member

    Mustang suppliers should have that. They have a cage nut like that going through the bottom of the lower rocker
     
  18. tarpkir
    Joined: Jul 13, 2009
    Posts: 6

    tarpkir
    Member

    Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to this. But, I've got some pictures as well as my solution. The pictures should explain everything pretty well. There is absolutely no access from the inside to the circular hole at the front of the rocker panel. That hole is only there to allow for clearance for the bolt that holds the bottom attachment bracket. I order cage nuts from Graingers. 3/8"-16 Cage Nut, Zinc Plated, Steel, PK10 Item # 487J52
    These are not perfect as I should have ordered one for a smaller panel thickness. But, I was guessing and these work. 3/8" is the same size as the other fender bolts. But, these are coarse thread, whereas the fender bolts are fine thread.

    The cage nut can be slid sideways into the rectangular opening and then positioned using a pick or hook tool. Once it's snapped in place, it will slide back and forth to accommodate positioning the fender, but you can't pull it out. Let me know if this is all clear. I can post more pictures if necessary.


    upload_2021-12-9_11-25-53.png

    upload_2021-12-9_11-26-25.png

    upload_2021-12-9_11-26-56.png

    upload_2021-12-9_11-27-22.png

    upload_2021-12-9_11-27-48.png

    upload_2021-12-9_11-28-18.png
     
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
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    What year is that car? '63?

    I have my '60 in my shop, and just had a customer's '61. Neither has that bracket, or the rectangular hole.

    This must be a '62-'63 thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
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    This rocker panel:
    PXL_20211113_211639063.jpg

    Is not the same as this rocker panel:
    upload_2021-12-9_11-27-48.png

    This extension:
    PXL_20210824_030705671.jpg

    Is not this extension:
    upload_2021-12-9_11-25-53.png

    We are not comparing the same things here.
     
  21. tarpkir
    Joined: Jul 13, 2009
    Posts: 6

    tarpkir
    Member

    Pictures are from a '63 Falcon convertible. Is it possible that the rockers for a convertible are reinforced and made slightly different than for a sedan? That might explain the difference.
     
  22. tarpkir
    Joined: Jul 13, 2009
    Posts: 6

    tarpkir
    Member

    Not quite sure what you're trying to illustrate with your pictures. You're showing the top of the firewall / rocker. I'm showing the bottom. So, no, we are not comparing the same things.
     
  23. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,093

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The title of the thread is about '60-'63 Falcons.

    They are obviously not the same across that year range. I am showing the differences between the chassis, apparently between 1960-1961, and 1962-1963, contrary to the title of the thread.
     

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