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Technical 1959 Ford bad brakes ,running out of ideas !

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Oliver Steward, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,172

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    You don't have 59 Ford brakes you have Wilwood brakes. With discs 60% or more of the braking effort is on the front wheels. Suggest you contact the Wilwood company and ask their advice.

    Even the stock drum brakes should skid the tires if applied hard. No brakes can do more. The advantage of discs is control and lack of fade.
     
  2. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,860

    sunbeam
    Member

    In a hydraulic system if there is not a restriction the pressure will be the same everywhere. A ballooning will cause the pedal to travel farther but will not change the pressure.
     
  3. petew
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 205

    petew
    Member
    from Mebane, NC

    I had a similar problem with my 56 Merc that I did a similar disc brake conversion on .
    I changed the fulcrum on the brake pedal to increase the mechanical advantage and that did the trick.
    By changing the fulcrum I mean altering the distance from the brake pedal pivot to the point where the master cylinder push rod attaches. Just google ‘brake pedal fulcrum’ or “ how to measure brake pedal ratio”
    The fix was as simple as drilling a hole and relocating the master cylinder pushrod.
    Damned thing will stop on a dime now.
     
    Baumi likes this.
  4. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,427

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a 1" Ford Master Cyl here on the shelf just like the one Bob posted .You can have it, for free. It´s used but worked great. I´m here in Germany, pm me your address and I´ll send it to you. I´m pretty sure your 1 1/8" master is too big for your appilcation, 1" will give you more leverage and more pedal travel.
    Of course Rockauto is a good source too.
     
    town sedan likes this.
  5. Oliver Steward
    Joined: Dec 28, 2019
    Posts: 13

    Oliver Steward
    Member

    Unfortunately i can't re drill the pedal , the way the under dash booster is mounted to the pedal it makes doing this extremely difficult , I'm going to go with a 1" master cylinder and see how that goes
    Thanks to every one who has tried to help , i'll let you know how it goes.
     
    Baumi likes this.
  6. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 570

    Mimilan
    Member

    go with a 1" or smaller M/C but use a stepped bore [quick uptake] M/C
    Try one off a BMW E32 [the stepped bore helps reduce the initial pedal travel.]

    We used a smaller BMW E36 M/C on a Lotus Cortina race car with great success [ circuit racers get nervous when the pedal goes to the floor]
     
  7. I would definitely not re-drill the pedal. Does it have 2 holes in it? Some (probably newer) cars had a position for manual and power brakes. My '59 only has one hole in it.
     
  8. I like the idea of using something you can source locally.
     
  9. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,427

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The parcel with the 1" bore Ford MC is on its way to you, Oliver. I just dropped it off the GLS office.
    BMW used 25mm masters for a long time, I have both an e32 and e36 MC here, both are 25mm/ 1". But I couldn´t use them on any old American car until now because they are just to darn ugly with the clear plastic reservoir.
     
    town sedan likes this.
  10. Oliver Steward
    Joined: Dec 28, 2019
    Posts: 13

    Oliver Steward
    Member

    Thanks for your input bobss396 . And a huge thank you to Baumi for sending me a master cylinder.im looking forward to trying it out.
     
    bobss396 likes this.
  11. I have done a lot of brake conversions on 55'-64' Fords/Merc over the years. Does your system have any kind of proportioning valve? Brass block looking thing? You should have one with disc brakes. Also check the rod between the booster and master. Most of the time they are not adjusted from the manufacture. That will make a difference also.
     
  12. I had the old petrified single-pot master on my car. I just set the new rod length the same as the old one, no other changes from there.
     
  13. Oliver Steward
    Joined: Dec 28, 2019
    Posts: 13

    Oliver Steward
    Member

    I don't have any kind of proportioning valve . i didn't fit one at the time i rebuilt the mechanical stuff , i thought i see how it braked , being only just able to lock up the wheels on grass i didn't consider it necessary.
    I set up the pushrod and the cam adjuster as the book said and the booster does make a difference. I' going to fit a 1" cylinder and take it from there......
     
  14. Heard about the guy who advertized for sale a car with bad brakes: "Runs great, no stopping it."
     
    bobss396 likes this.
  15. You don't need a proportioning valve, often they make more problems. I used an aftermarket distribution block from Summit, I see them on eBay too. Like the one in the link, no chrome for $30 less. The hydraulic switch leaked immediately on mine.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/CPP-PROPOR...ON-BLOCK-CHROME-SWITCH-AND-WIRE-/262771374225
     
  16. Oliver Steward
    Joined: Dec 28, 2019
    Posts: 13

    Oliver Steward
    Member

    I thought i'd post up a update , if any ones interested .....Thank you very much to Baumi who sent me the new 1" master cylinder , i got the chance to paint it and fit it a couple of days ago . The brakes are definitely better , unfortunately the pedal goes to the floor with a good shove and the booster in operation with the engine running.The pedal did have a lot of travel before so its not surprising now . I have now got a 10lb residual valve to go to the rear drum brakes . i'll fit it asap and see what happens.
    A quick question . I'm now using a dual circuit Mustang type master cylinder , i have fitted the front brake circuit to the rear outlet and the rear brakes to the front outlet . is this correct ? . My research suggests so but any first hand opinions would be helpfull.
     

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