Hot Rods 1959 Chevy truck issue. SOMEONE HELP

I thought R&P was verboten on a traditional site

 

There is also the problem of the Mustang rack being front steer. Mount it in front of the axle and it will scrub in turns with the Ackerman out of whack unless you can really twerk them outwards. If you mount the rack to the frame, it will bumpsteer. Dump the big block for a six and problem solved.

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I REPEAT CLEARANCE YOUR HEADER and ADD THE PROPPER LUBE!!!

 

Use the rack, it’ll work great...... Fuck him if he won’t listen....


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You can beat the s—t out your header and not make a bit of difference in performance. Look up what Freiburger did on a you tube video.

 

I was going to post a picture of my 55, but @squirrel saved me the trouble.
I solved the problem slightly differently, in that my motor is centered, and I re- routed the back two header tubes to clear the steering box. I have never had a problem keeping it lubed, but with manual steering and big tires, it can be a bear to turn the wheels when the truck isn't moving.
I put a pair of standard 6.70 tires on, to move to move it around while it was getting painted, and couldn't believe how easy it was to steer.
I will be adding power steering just to please the wife. My plan is, to use the power steering assembly from a 63-67 Corvette. I already have the parts. Doing it this way, solves the problem of making any major changes.
Bob

 

Man, everyone is freaking out like I’m dead hooked on the idea of running the rack. I’m not, and was just asking if anyone has had that set up before, and have a discussion. Sorry for being “new” here and not knowing what was taboo, I’ll refrain from asking questions that deviate from bone stock

Minus the big block/trans/rear end and the Trex wood I used in the bed. My truck is pretty much original, and I’m doing what I can to keep it that way.


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You can ask ask questions about things not stock, you just need to ditch the idea of running a rack on a straight axle. It’s a bad idea and three or four people have already told you why it’s a bad idea. As for hard steering, maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see how wide of a front tire you’re running. Do you still have the stock steering wheel, or have you gone to a smaller diameter wheel? An iron head big block Chevy is heavy, and if you have a wider front tire, and maybe a smaller steering wheel, it’s gonna be hard to turn sitting still. Period.

 

If i read mustang II again im gonna puke a street rod

 

Like your bed. Once and done.

 

I think the idea id a rack mounted to the axle, spindles mounted to the same axle, What can move there? Yes, you'd want to have something in the steering that can work with the suspension travel, but has to be a solution I think?

I'm not looking to do it, but I'm sure it's a few steps below rocket science.

 

it's been done, using a telescoping steering shaft.

There are two more reasons it's still a bad idea: 1. The steering ratio is worse (fewer turns lock to lock) with the rack, so it will be even harder to steer. 2. It's still manual, you still have a lot of weight on wide tires.

Changing to narrow front wheels and tires will make a surprising difference in steering effort. Try it.

 

Like this?


I sill wouldn't use a rack on a solid axle though.....

 

Would have to be collapsible and be able to work as it was moving... then again the stock column came off the frame solid, so...

 

What I think has to be weird is that not only does the axle move up and down but also forward and back at an arc, it's got to transfer that movement back into the steering wheel with a rack.
I was thinking of switching mine over to a 525 (I think) Saginaw box I have, to gain header clearance, but I'm not sure what to hook the pitman arm / drag link to on the passenger side.

 

Curious, what would you think of a u-joint and a slip shaft?

 

That looks like it would work...thing is we'd have to lay out some cash to find out, but it might be worth a shot.

 

Everything I’m running, tire and wheel has not changed over the last two years. The issue is obviously my box, the oil turned to sludge in no time, I assumed it was the header hugging it, s
but I’m going to try squirrels suggestion of the #00 weight, and go from there.

I cannot confirm nor deny that it is in fact, a “mustang II” manual rack. Considering every one looks exactly the fucking same, weather it’s a POS helix or you get a high end TCI rack. I’m pretty sure they are one in the same.

Bunch of leaf springs huggers in here, I’ve driven plenty of hot rods/strip-street, and pro touring trucks that have had TCI fronts and even those “damned mustang IIs” and I haven’t had a bad experience yet, Some brand new with air bags and some with 50k miles and coil overs. I’ve even welded some in(SteamFitter welder for 15 years).

99% of the time, the issues are the half witted window lickers, that think their gas less Lincoln 110 buried under their high school year books is going to be able to weld a crossmember on a frame, not to mention most of them have no business picking up a torch in the first place.

Most people know that 2, and even 1 degree out of square or level, equals a piss poor ride and it greatly diminishes the life of your suspension components. So when I see someone blasting IFS kits, “i was changing bushings at 250 miles or “it drove like shit.” “My buddy said they suck,” I typically assume they are the person mentioned above (), or even worse, they hired that guy to do it.


I agree, stock is cool. Cooler than the other side of the mother fuckin pillow. But not everyone is trying to be captain cool of their car club, with the original shit stains, from the original owners, first born son, back in 1921. “GO AHEAD BILL, TAKE A WIFF”


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I like this convo, where’d you find that u joint shaft?

I enjoy reading these useful ideas, not so much the guys shooting down any and every idea that changes the stock configuration.

 

It's off topic for this forum, but I put an early 70s GM subframe under a 57 Suburban I had, it worked really well....but I've also been driving my (stock suspension/steering) 59 for a long long time, and it does all right. If you want to go the modern MII route, you'll probably be fine if you do it right, but it's off topic for this place.

You're new here...in addition to the mechanical pros/cons of each setup, there are the "tastes" aspects, which you touched on. Maybe it's being "captain cool", or maybe it's just keeping on topic for the meeting room you're visiting? but traditionally modified original old suspension is the hot ticket in this room.

Hopefully you'll figure out how to make your truck work, without resorting to sticking a rack on the axle.

 

Don't know about the rack, the lube or the headers but I do know that when I was a kid I had wide tires on the front of my 50 F1, straight axle and it steered awful. It would even flex the frame when trying to turn wheel when not moving. Narrower wheels and tires much much better.

Mike

 

Us leaf spring huggers understand what this forum is about, and it’s not stock vehicles. It’s also not new stuff with modern steering and suspension setups. As squirrel said nothing wrong with that if that’s what you want, just doesn’t fit in here. Most of us probably have off topic stuff it just doesn’t get pushed because it simply doesn’t fit this forum. Listen to squirrel, do some research on what he does, his setups work. A rack on a solid axle is a bad idea, a lot of work for something that will not gain anything. Good luck with the truck.


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Jay, eons ago I mounted a (OT) R&P from an OT vehicle on the rear of the beam axle on my 36 Chevy. I installed a slip section in my steering shaft to accommodate suspension travel. I thought I had done ALL my research and it looked to be a sound setup. In reality it sucked asks, it was little better than the stock 36 box but after driving it a short while I ripped it out and installed a later GM box. Really do yourself a favor and listen to what SQUIRREL is saying, he has ALOT of experience and knows his shit. Mitch.

 

I understand completely, I’m not looking on putting a MII on my truck. Honestly, I never even considered it. I was just seeing if anyone has done a mod to incorporate a R&P with a stockish suspension, that’s it. Not that they’d admit it on this forum.

I understand the concept of an axle mounted R&P being a not so great idea, I used the only picture I could find online for using that set up on a stock frame.
All IFS kits utilized the tapped holes on the crossmember for the rack in their applications, so considering that, I was wondering if anyone had played with the idea or even been crazy enough to try, fabricating their own “crossmember” that would accommodate the rack, and not interfere with your current straight axle, I imagie this might be more possible with a drop axle set up, but I don’t know, I haven’t pulled the nose and motor and really sat down and mocked/ pondered the possibility. Hence, me asking here first.

The obvious issue being geometry in relationship to the tie rods and pitman arms, but those can be custom ordered or even altered by someone with Full-Pen welding capabilities.

In all honesty, for me, cool doing something that no one else has done or maybe that I’ve just never seen before. Fabricating/geometry/ and engineering have always been my strong suits, considering my profession, so trying to innovate and create/try something new is something I just can’t help but do. I’ve mocked shit up that most would consider a waste of time, but I’ve learned and gotten a lot of great ideas from “wasting time.”

 

If you mount the rack to a cross member on the frame with a solid front axle it will be absolutely un drivable due to bump steer. That’s an even worse idea than a rack on the axle.


I’m assuming that because you used the term pitman arm when referencing rack and pinion steering that you don’t have a ton of experience with this stuff. That’s ok, do some reading on steering and suspension setups. There is sometimes a reason something hasn’t been done before. It’s probably been tried.


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thank you for your real world insight. I do respect squirrels opinion and like I’ve stated before, I’ve used a lot of his insight when dropping the 454/th400 in my truck in the first place. Everything he’s stated about it, I was able to pre plan and avoid serious road blocks. Saved me Weeks on my build

 

hey squirrel,

did you end up boxing or reinforcing your frame after the motor swap? I remember reading about you taking your 59 to the track, I believe. Just out of curiosity.

 

Maybe I am not seeing this right but the box looks to be manual. If that is true then a heavy engine sitting on wide tires at a stop is going to be a bear to steer. I get that the grease was done and an issue. I had a 70 Chev PU manual truck that steered well but got stiff at -30F. A co-worker had a new 1967 Camaro RS with manual steering that was hard to turn at a stop. As soon as he bought the car he put a set of wider tires on it. I was with him when he was boxed in and he had a work out coaxing out of it's parking spot. A heat shield with air on both sides will help as it stops the radiant heat and there would be a lot from headers. Another culprit could be the kingpins. I had a 73 Ford where the power steering seemed sticky and was not smooth. I thought it was the steering box and got one from the wreckers. The garage said it was not the box and they heated up around the kingpins to coax grease in where it needed to go and then it was good. If the truck has manual steering then installing power steering box may get the steering that is wanted.

 

I’m sorry, I suppose i didn’t type that correctly, I was referring to the current “pitman arm” in relationship to the tie rods that would be needed for the R&P. I’m not a steering and suspension expert, but i know enough to get by and also in trouble.

I understand the pitman arm is Eliminated once converting to R&P/tie rods


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