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Technical 1957 Truck Hemi converting to Pass car

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by walt460, Dec 23, 2015.

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  1. walt460
    Joined: Jun 14, 2015
    Posts: 68

    walt460
    Member

    We have a 1957 big dodge truck hemi engine, a 354, and it runs, so we got to use it.. We are putting it to use in a mini gasser style street car (1960 Falcon with a 1949 F1 straight axle). We have a 1954 Chrysler 4V intake and timing cover we plan to use. Working now to figure out just how to plug the truck's water cross-over ports in the heads while the heads are still on the engine. Any suggestions?

    Also, need some help with oil filter. This engine came to us without any filter and we need to use a remote, but I understand the factory filter was not a full-flow system. Please educate us, what do we need to do to convert to a full-flow remote oil filter.

    Any/all help will be much appreciated.

    Walt
     
  2. Alex D.
    Joined: Jun 9, 2009
    Posts: 302

    Alex D.
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    from Hydes, MD.

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  3. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,285

    73RR
    Member

    To block off the water passage at the intake you will need to us a stainless/brass shim at the gasket.
    Some folks will use two gaskets and sandwich the shim some will slather a bunch of Permatex #2 on the shim.

    The oem design for the oil system has a pressure by-pass and an anti-drain-back assembly that is found in the block under the rear main cap. You can replace these parts only if your new filter has a pressure by-pass and anti-drain-back built in. Some additional info here: http://www.qualityengineeredcomponents.com/?page_id=909

    .
     
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  4. walt460
    Joined: Jun 14, 2015
    Posts: 68

    walt460
    Member

    Thanks for the info!
    On the intake we are going to try two gaskets with a stainless steel 0.05" plate. Old compressed gasket was 0.065". Plan is to use a Hot Heads # 90655 intake gasket which has the truck crossover water port covered-over, then the stainless steel plate cut to cover the port, then use the 90500 car gasket with the heat riser port area cut out around that steel plate.

    The engine has the small oil filter lines just returning back in a loop. You can not put much oil through the original small lines so it must of had some kind of a by-pass filter. I think we will just leave that loop in-place for now and not have any filter.

    Walt
     
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  5. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 24,616

    Jalopy Joker
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  6. walt460
    Joined: Jun 14, 2015
    Posts: 68

    walt460
    Member

    OK, still working to convert our '56 354 truck hemi to a passenger car configuration. We have figured out how to seal the 331 4V intake to the truck heads, and we have decided just to not use an oil filter (any issue?)

    We pulled the crank pulley and took the front cover off to find we need some more parts. We need a passenger car eccentric to replace the truck one so we can use the 331 front cover and fuel pump. Where to we get a passenger car fuel pump eccentric and will it just bolt-on to replace the truck one?

    What mechanical fuel pump should we use?

    Our engine has a double roller timing chain, where can we get new one or should we just use single chain style and if so, where do we get that?

    Any help much appreciated.

    Walt
     
  7. walt460
    Joined: Jun 14, 2015
    Posts: 68

    walt460
    Member

    IMG_20150613_132542440.jpg IMG_20150613_132531851.jpg IMG_20150613_132531851.jpg Some pics of the 1956 truck Hemi installed in a 1960 Falcon.
     
  8. Joel W
    Joined: Jan 4, 2010
    Posts: 96

    Joel W
    Member

    Does the engine currently have a timing chain or gear drive? To convert from the truck gear drive and water pump setup, the crank needs machining to use a auto style timing chain/harmonic balancer/front cover. Also- if memory serves, the oil pan and front cover for truck engines are the same as 54 and earlier, not the 55-58 style. Someone chime in if I got any of this wrong!
     
  9. walt460
    Joined: Jun 14, 2015
    Posts: 68

    walt460
    Member

    Our 354 truck motor has a double roller timing chain. It needs to be replaced. Any idea where we can get a replacement or can we just use the passenger car timing gears and chain?
     
  10. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,187

    George
    Member

    Truck heads are solid front, so I guess they've been replaced. To run an LA timing chain (318/340) you need a "ring" spacer between the cam & the timing gear or it will lock to the block, insufficient clearance. I believe the OEM car one will work w/o mods. Yes, the block is the same as the 51-4 car block so it will take the slightly less bulky 51-4 timing cover, but not the little 55-58 cover. Hot Heads has an adaptor to use an LA fuel pump, lots of problems with original style F/Ps for a number of years now, even new rebuilt ones. Trucks had an even larger oil filter canister than the cars had. I'd drop the pan & install the passage block (actually I don't think any real amount of oil can get by the anti-drain back ball) & install a spin on oil filter adaptor. Running no filter isn't a bright idea unless you're only racing it & changing oil very frequently.
     
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  11. walt460
    Joined: Jun 14, 2015
    Posts: 68

    walt460
    Member

    George,
    Heads have not been replaced, they are truck heads. We are using 1954 331 4V intake with home-made shims to block off cross-over port.

    Thanks for info on timing chain, I will see if I can locate a service set for a 1954 331.

    Thanks also for the tip to get Hot Heads adaptor to allow use of LA fuel pump.

    Please explain more about installing passage block and a spin-on oil filter adaptor. We would like to do this but we thought we had to remove the rear main, which we really do not want to do as it does leak currently.

    Where can I find a passenger car fuel pump eccentric? (The truck one will never work with the 1954 331 front cover.)

    Walt
     
  12. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    The truck uses a two piece timing cover, unlike the one piece 51-53 car style. It also repositions the water pump. Being a 57 truck, a late model timing set might work. I have seen the early truck engines with long nose cams also with a roller timing set. Somewhat unique application.
    There is also an adapter plate used on a lot of the truck engines which is plumped to a remote filter.

    Most of the time the late model fuel pump adapter is more trouble than it is worth. It is one of those "almost" deals. I stopped making them for that very reason. Use an electric pump and be done with it.
     
  13. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,187

    George
    Member

    I thought you meant the water passage to the thermostat, guess you meant the under carb passage. You might check with Rock Auto for an OEM timing chain. If you have a long snout cam the 51-55 would be the one, if short snout the 56-8 set. Yes, you have to drop the rear Main then run a rod down the hole for the pressure guage to knock out the ball/cage. The HH LA F/P adaptor works fine on my '55 331 car engine. 73RR might have a eccentric laying around.
     
  14. walt460
    Joined: Jun 14, 2015
    Posts: 68

    walt460
    Member

    IMG953649[1].jpg OK, we found a timing chair and cam gear, but not a crank gear, so reusing crank gear. We had to machine out the passenger car fuel pump eccentric to fit the truck cam, and we made the washer to bolt it up. So does this set-up look right?
     
  15. walt460
    Joined: Jun 14, 2015
    Posts: 68

    walt460
    Member

    When we took the truck damper off the crank, there were these two collars behind it and no oil slinger. What is needed so we can use the passenger car front cover?
    IMG_3643[1].jpg
     
  16. I got a set of those heads on ebay. Plan to use them on my long bell housing 331 (bored 1/8" over to 354) some day. They don't have the 354/392 water X-over passages so they are better suited to my 331. Advantages are big oval exhaust ports compared to my anemic small round 331 ones and they don't have those exhaust crossover ports that ruin water cooled heads unless you block them off. I just plan on brazing in 3/8" thick steel plates so I can run stock passenger car gaskets and manifolds. Will have to install new valve guides and valves to replace those funky large stem sodium filled truck ones but that is no big deal.
     
  17. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,187

    George
    Member

    you have to use the 51-3 car front cover, not the small 55-57.
     
  18. walt460
    Joined: Jun 14, 2015
    Posts: 68

    walt460
    Member

    George, yep, got a early front cover. What about the spacers on the crank nose and an oil slinger when making this conversion?
     

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