Customs 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Seized Engine Removal

I thought I would post a new thread on the progress of this project in case anyone out there can use the info.

My 57 Caddy Eldo was purchased with a known seized motor (#'s matching 365 Dual Carb)

Everything else on the car is original and in good condition.
The car was last registered and driven in 1979 and everything inside the car actually works (all lights, wiper, power windows, trunk pull down, etc) so I decided to buy the car.

The rumor is that the car was parked and never driven because someone stole the highly desirable intake and dual carb setup many years ago. I'm hoping that this is why the engine is seized. Hopefully moisture got in through the heads/intake port and rusted the piston rings to the cylinder wall and not serious damage is found like a cracked block, etc... This car has always been parked inside and the paint/interior and lack of rust confirms that.

I could not get the motor to rotate regardless of how much it soaked. I tried to break it loose on the flywheel / flex plate but no luck. The oil look great, no water, etc... and the radiator has what smelled like (antifreeze) pouring out....although rusty looking antifreeze.

Pulling the motor was a chore. Very tight and not a lot of room.

This car does not have a typical torque converter as you would know it, it has a fluid coupling and the tranny cannot be removed from the engine until you unbolt the fluid coupling (flywheel) from the flex plate that is connected to the crankshaft.

In other words, since the engine was seized, there is no way to rotate the flex plate around to unbolt it.
We had to pull the entire engine & tranny together, then once it was on the ground, we removed the bell housing bolts and pryed the engine block away from the tranny enough to start unbolting the flex plate. This cause the flex plate to bend once we started prying it apart but it wasn't bad and caused no significant damage. Once it was unbolted, the tranny separated and away the engine went to the machinist for inspection and rebuilding.

I also took the transmission to my Transmission specialist who specializes in older trannys (get your mind out of the gutter) for a rebuild. He said he knows these very well and estimated the rebuild cost to be around $1300-$1500 bucks total which includes the rebuilt kit.

Anyway, the original #'s matching engine and the original tranny are hopefully going to get a clean bill of health and a fresh rebuild.

Here's the photo of the numbers on the back of the driver's block under the head that show what kind of motor she was. The X denotes a dual carb setup.

 

Well you lucky dog you, I just ogthat those were my all time favorite Cadillac the other day. keep us posted on the progress.

 

Small correction for you, the X actually denotes a non ac car. The Q is the dual quad designation.

 

Thanks
Good Info !

 

You are a lucky dog and were glad for you. Also very cool of you to keep the engine and spend the bucks to to rebuild it and the trans. Great looking car.

 

Wonder what an intake & air cleaner with no carbs might be worth today ...

 

They are not cheap.

 

Looks like the "2" was re stamped and originally was a "1". Don't know the signifigance of that though.

 

A friend sold a complete set up. Air cleaner to intake with all linkage, gas pedal to carb to transmission.
4 years ago at Hershey. The selling price was over $3000. I don't remember the exact price. $3000 was what the guy he got it from wanted when I looked at it.

 

same question on my mind. I know what I had into just the air cleaner set up on the 56 I had.

 

Ports are not rusty. Maybe you are going to get away clean. neat motor. Intake is going to be a killer, unless you go with a single four or maybe after market dual quad.

 

I

I just bought a good intake from a Vintage Cadillac collector for $300. I'm now looking for carbs, linkage and breather. Not holding my breathe in a cheap breather !

 

Very cool. I'm glad you're giving the OG drivetrain a go. Good score on the intake.

I'm sure you already have this info, but here are the Carter numbers you are looking for:



Not sure of your financial situation, but if you are just looking to price out original carbs for yucks, there's two sets of correct Carters on Ebay right now for the '56 dual quad. Again, I'm sure you've seen these:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1956-1957-CAD...-2371S-2372S-REAL-DUEL-QUAD-SET-/172322129588

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1955-1956-Cad...r-WCFB-Carburetor-Remanufactured/172630687367

Another here:

http://nosandrestoredcadillacparts.com/shop/55-1-57841301/

All seem to be going for the same price retail, without a lot of digging.


If your looking for the 57's specifically, hopefully you can come across the proper ones. The air cleaners are up there too. Carb King was saying how these are all very expensive for the correct pieces.

I think the correct 57 dual quad intake is 1465950 (Eldo) or 1469263. The carburetorshop.com is CarbKing's site, and is a good source for parts and info.

 

Like the fact you are restoring it to its glory. I applaud you.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Thank you !

While I search for OEM replacement carbs at an affordable price, I'd like to know what else will fit the 365 dual carb intake as an affordable alternative.

I understand that they may not look right or have the right numbers, but what have others used on a vintage 365 dual carb intake in a pinch ?

What about the old mopar carbs, etc...

Working on a budget here... but I'll eventually find or can afford the right ones ?

Physical fitment
Linkage
Etc..

Thanks in advance

 

I think it's been around 50 years since anyone made a new small base 4bbl carb, although I could be wrong. The modern solution is two small cfm Edelbrock carbs on adapters. The right solution is two old original type carbs

 

Be nice when finished.Please keep the updates coming.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

 

57 Eldo is a sweet ride, let's see the car please. One of my all time faves, best wishes on getting the original set up.

 

Not to be a downer, but I have been looking for WCFB's for a couple of projects. Since these are "hot rod" types of projects, I'm not even fussy about which ones I get. I haven't seen a decent core for under $200 lately. Now that the swap meet season is about to start up here, I'm hoping to finally get lucky. Rochester 4G's don't seem to have the same problem.

 

A bit of information:

(1) The 1956 carbs won't fit the 1957 manifold
(2) The carbs on Ebay, IF COMPLETE AND CORRECT, are DIRT CHEAP! The pictures are not sufficient to make a determination, so will make no comment.
(3) The choke assemblys are the killer on the price of the carbs. Unique to Cadillac, AND NEVER PRODUCED IN THE AFTERMARKET. Available from Cadillac or Carter ONLY.

Availability and pricing percentages (opinion)

Manifold (1957 10 percent, 1955, 1956 5 percent)
Linkage/fuel lines (not available to my knowledge - fabricate - 10 percent)
Carbs - 50 percent (if missing or broken chokes - 25 percent!!!!!)
Air cleaner - percentage that is left

Opinion - the CHEAPEST (at least in the long run) carburetors are the correct original carbs!!!!!

Yes, you can (if you are a carburetor guru, and independently wealthy), make others work, but never work as well as the originals. And if you (or your estate) ever sell the car, the originals not only are worth significantly more, the universe of buyers is greatly increased if you have originals.

Jon.

 

Would mostly agree with Jim (other than his "modern solution").

Did this article several years ago. Pay particular attention to information under AFB as to why adapters are necessary for post 1961 produced carbs.

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Four_barrel_mounting_flanges.htm

Jon.

 

I've seen new Edelbrock, (AFB style), carbs adapted to an original Caddy dual quad intake. Never heard the engine running, though. So I have no idea how well they worked.

 

By "modern solution", I mean that's what many guys would do today. Because they gotta buy new parts, instead of fix old ones.

 

Since I tend to be a Pontiac and/or Ford guy, the following article was done to discourage enthusiasts from attempting to run aftermarket (genuine) Carter AFB's on Pontiacs. Mostly, one can substitute "Cadillac" for "Pontiac" in the article, particularly on calibration, and be pretty close.

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Pontiac_aftermarket_AFB.htm

Remember that most Chevrolet engines are high RPM engines, and most Pontiac, and I believe all stock Cadillac engines are low RPM, high torque engines. The fuel requirements are TOTALLY different.

Jon.

 

Jim - I understood that. I would agree with "modern", just would not agree with "solution" Anything new and shiny is obviously much better than something old and dirty

Jon.

 

Can you post a picture of the car for us....Thanks.

 

see the other thread that has pics....

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...new-home-questions-about-options-vin.1060575/

 

Ohhh! That is NICE. I'm sorry,but whatever it costs, that deserves to be done right.

 

Do you know which manifold you have?

This is cad for Carter:


This is cad for Rochester:


If you try to use two old carbs that are not correct, make sure the throttle plate openings match the manifold, different cars used the same bodies with different plates.

Rochesters are easier to get. Fortunately I picked up this manifold, correct Rochesters and linkage on Ebay cheap, the carbs were seized and a mess, but I was able to bring them back. I use aftermarket electric chokes.

Here is an image of the stock linkage for the Rochester set up. It is strait, just as the manual describes, and not progressive. You will have to fab connections to the accelerator pedal and kick down lever, (try to do a better job than my hack job):

 

Something else I just remembered. When you receive your manifold, check the choke heat tube area. Those manifolds are infamous for cracking in the vacinity of the heat tube. In any case, replace the heat tube while the manifold is off the engine.

Jon.