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Technical 1955 Olds with 455 swapping in a 200-4R

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by flatoz, Jul 9, 2017.

  1. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,237

    flatoz
    Member

    I searched around a lot before I did this and didn't find much on this install, so thought I would take some notes along the way to help others out who might want to do this transmission swap down the track.

    So what I had and what I was doing.

    1955 Olds super 88 Holiday coupe with a 455 and TH400.

    plan was to just swap the TH400 for the 200-4R.

    The trans - it is an Art Carr ( CPT) 200-4R below is whats been done to it direct from their website

    200 4R Band is fully lined with Red Eagle friction material. For additional holding power we add 2 extra clutch plates in the direct clutch (8 total) and 1 additional plate in 4th gear (3 total). Direct clutches are Red Eagle and Kolene steels. All 12021 transmissions include 10 Vane pump with heavy slide spring, HD pressure regulator spring, heat treated stator support, Heavy duty heat treated input drum assembly, new thrust washers and bushings, .500 boost valve, .296 Reverse boost valve and a Hi Tech Valve body kit.

    This is the #12021 listed at $2199.99, plus a converter and a dipstick came to just over $2500US
    This went to Long Beach, on a boat and across the water to me.

    My biggest concern was what would fit / work and what wouldn't/ would need changing.

    from the Trans identification chart


    Tranmission Length.jpg


    The trans mount for the TH400 and the 2004R are exactly in the same position which is 28 1/4" from the mounting face of the trans. the overall length the 200 is 3/4" shorter.

    So for me the choice of this trans over the 700 was

    - bolts up to a 455 without adapter
    -same trans mount position
    - very close to same length = no shortening of driveshaft
    -lots of people in the 'olds world' run these behind big motors
    -Uses your existing TH400 trans mount



    So here we go, not many photos as I was busy working on it


    the car.


    20170704_224610_resized_2.jpg


    having the hoist helps a lot and a proper trans jack too. I bought one of these to do this job and it's already come in handy for another job.


    the trans, jack and parts.


    20170704_224656_resized_2.jpg


    20170705_001055_resized_2.jpg

    So the 400 came out easily enough and the 200 went in easily enough as it bolted right up and as I said the trans bolted directly to the trans mount and X member where the 400 was.

    The speedo cable hooked up no problems even though this box is metric it has the standard speedo cable set up not electric so the original speedo cable from the 400 just screwed in as you would hope.

    20170705_001147_resized_2.jpg

    400 out.




    200 in 20170705_121118_resized.jpg

    20170705_221049_resized.jpg


    The gear selector went straight on, I did have to adjust the rod a little but that was done from below and was just a couple of turns to get it to line up 100%.


    The cooler lines are reversed, so the 200 is

    out to trans cooler = top fitting on trans

    In to trans from cooler = bottom fitting in trans.

    this is the reverse of the 400

    I'm running barbed fittings and some flexible hose and the barbed fitting went into the case of the 200 just like they were in the 400. There was a fitting in the case that would take a double flare hard line, but I removed those and the barbed fitting went straight in.

    here's a good chart on whats what cooler line wise

    http://www.txchange.com/cooler.htm


    As I had a TH400 the driveshaft was built for that. the stock slip yoke for a 700 or 200 is 27 spline, but 1310 series universal joints, so I needed to get a 1350 series slip yoke for 27 spline count.

    easy enough to find at jegs or summit etc. Strange make #U1662
    or Hardy Spicer 3-3-4281X

    Of course then you can use your existing U joint if its in good condition. I could have used the smaller 1310 series slip yoke with one of Hardy Spicers u joints that have 1310 on one half of the cross and 1350 on the other, but I liked the idea of just using a standard u joint.

    The biggest issue I have found so far is the dust cover. I'm currently running without one, as I stupidly assumed that the 700R4 cover I had would fit, well it didn't. the TH400 wasn't really close and it seems TCI make a universal one which is #TCI 743866
    However this is plastic and I'd prefer tin.

    One word of advice, hook up the TV cable before installing the trans, I don't know why I didn't but it took a few minutes to sort that out given the angles and the lack of space, so a simple job was made harder than it needed to be.

    speaking of TV cable to get it sorted up the top end I had to space the Holley bracket that gives you the right geometry away from the Holley carb. for this I used washers to get the right spacing, I'm making a solid spacer for this. I also had to make a 1/4" rod threaded to UNF to take a Heim joint one end to attach to the carb as the accelerator linkage and threaded at the other end to attach to the original linkage. I also had to make a spacer for the TV cable bracket that attaches to the rear carb intake stud to space the TV cable bracket out so it was clear the accelarator linkage I made.

    20170705_215350_resized.jpg


    So I filled it with fluid and put the car on a trailer and took it to an auto shop to get the TV cable looked at, a small adjustment and it was good to go.

    Then the problem was my rear end gears. I had 3.23 using an online calculator that showed me at 62mph ( our 100kmh speed limit) at 1670 rpm and at 68 mph ( 110kmh) at 1831rpm. too low for the trans. I drove it home like this and it was lugging, so the car went straight back onto the hoist and the original to the car 3.64 rear gear set went back in. this now gives me

    62 mph = 1882 rpm
    68 mph = 2064 rpm


    So far I have noticed about a 20% decrease in fuel consumption, but I haven't done enough driving as yet and in different ranges either. Plus to be honest, I didn't do the swap for fuel economy, if I get some then great. I did it to not have the motor revving so hard on the freeway trips.

    I use to happily cruise at 62mph and watch the cars go by and wasn't worried about a speeding ticket as I knew I was safe. What I have noticed now is I need to really watch the speed as its so easy to creep over the limit ( they're viscous with tickets for speeding here)

    Anyway, cars together, trans seems to be doing what it should. and fingers crossed it will hold together. I will say it seems a more docile a trans than the 400.

    oh the converter is a 2000-2200 stall.

    Hope this helps someone else.

    cheers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
    Drewfus, 61Cruiser, Hnstray and 2 others like this.
  2. Thanks for a good informative write up.:)
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  3. EnglishJon
    Joined: Oct 27, 2009
    Posts: 39

    EnglishJon
    Member

    Don't worry about the dust-cover, you can run a trans without one. A bit of air-flow around the converter is a good thing. The engine/balancer seal and pinion seal don't have dust-covers.
     
  4. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,237

    flatoz
    Member

    Jon,

    true I know that, but I don't want to. If I can cover it , I will.

    A couple of things I forgot to put in the post that will help.

    this link is good for figuring out what set of gears you need once you've got your rear end ratio and tire size it will tell you which drive gear and which driven gear you need to be accurate on your speedo

    http://www.montess.org/speedo_gears.html

    The Holley Overdrive transmission kick down bracket I used which is for 700 and 200 trans is P/N 20-121

    looks like this.



    20-121v2.jpg



    and the TV cable geometry in setting it up ( covered all over the net but to put it in the same spot) this is from cpt.


    tec2.jpg


    tec1.jpg
     

  5. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,237

    flatoz
    Member

    Oh, the last thing, one I nearly got caught on, I realised that the hold down bolt for the TV cable was metric, so I looked at the dust cover and it was metric to 6mm. I know nothing about metric bolts so went to the bolt shop and bought some 6mm bolts for the dust cover.

    I forgot about the trans mount! Luckily CPT included them. So if you're doing this swap don't forget that the bolts that go into the trans that mount the trans mount to the trans are metric, I can't tell you what, but your bolts out of your TH350 or TH400 wont work.

    I hate mixing metric and imperial bolts on my car, but apart from tapping the threads out I can't see how I could get around it.
     
    61Cruiser, Hnstray and chevyfordman like this.

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