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1955 Lincoln Capri 302 and transmission swap?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by OldLincolnguy55, Jun 6, 2021.

  1. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,883

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    Steve,
    I have the perfect example.....
    A 289/302/351/300 6 in a 1953-64 Truck with Y block manual transmission using the "eared" belhousing mount.....
    Big trucks (Dumps, Flatbeds and Grain trucks) used the Y block style eared manual bellhousing behind the 300 6 cylinder. The 300 6 has the same bell pattern as a SBF.

    This does not help with the Lincoln but it does illustrate combining parts to accomplish a goal..
     
  2. evintho
    Joined: May 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,836

    evintho
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The OP's original question was about transmission choice. He was considering a budget 302/AOD swap. I think the AOD was agreed upon as a good choice. I'm not too familiar with the '55 Lincoln Capri but how different is the chassis setup from '52-'56 Fords? With the Fords a 302/AOD swap is a bolt-in using OTC Mustang motor/trans mounts. Just sayin'.
     
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  3. Rynothealbino
    Joined: Mar 23, 2009
    Posts: 249

    Rynothealbino
    Member

    Do you have a link to the mounts you are talking about? I am not sure how different they are from a Ford, but a Lincoln is definitely it's own distinct chassis. For me the AOD or it's variants would be a contender, but it will probably want deeper gears than what is came with from the factory to make overdrive work properly and not lug. I'm pretty sure the rear ends in these are Dana 44's, so a gear swap is at least an option. Or a rear end swap, which can lead to a front and rear disc swap...and so it goes. A person really needs to sit down and look and the package as a whole before spending any money or getting too excited about anything.
     
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  4. OldLincolnguy55
    Joined: Jun 6, 2021
    Posts: 27

    OldLincolnguy55
    Member

    My plan is to do most of the work myself. As far as swaps go this is an easier one than a lot of the more modern ones people in classic cars though I'm expecting some issues to arise for sure. Though the car requires a good bit of work in other places so I'm prepared for it to be awhile before it's on the road.
     
  5. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,407

    oldiron 440
    Member

    How much torque and horsepower did the original motor have? The 289/302 will have 300 ftlds of torque and a little more than 200 horsepower stock.
     
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  6. OldLincolnguy55
    Joined: Jun 6, 2021
    Posts: 27

    OldLincolnguy55
    Member

    If I remember correctly 225 was the stock horsepower and for torque it would be around 325 ft lbs of torque
     
  7. The Lincoln Y-block is a physically large motor with a 11" deck height, so you should have plenty of room. And you won't have any luck finding a single donor car as the 351/AOD combo was never offered by Ford. You will need a aftermarket 'conversion' flexplate, but they're available. My second choice would be a C4, but you'll want to have it beefed up as it will be more than a bit light-duty behind a 351 in a heavy car.
     
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  8. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 21,973

    Roothawg
    Member

    I have a 5.0 and 4R70W for my 55 Ford. Everything I have read says they will fit. It's tight, but it fits. I have a 4R70W in my daily and I have abused it for 20 years. Not a single issue, ever. Never even changed the fluid. I was going to one year before vacation and they said the fluid looked like new, so I passed.
     
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  9. evintho
    Joined: May 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,836

    evintho
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here's a link to the AZ mounts.......
    289-302-351W Swap mounts | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

    I'm running a 302/AOD combo in my '54. I'm using the stock rearend which has 3.31 gears. The OP mentioned he has 3.31's also. The stock 8.8 in my '93 Mustang parts car runs 3.27 gears. My 302/AOD came out of the same '93 Mustang. I think the 3.31's will be just fine behind a 302/AOD. Just my .02 cents.
     
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  10. Rynothealbino
    Joined: Mar 23, 2009
    Posts: 249

    Rynothealbino
    Member

    That's pretty cool that those work so easily. Just slotted out the holes and that's it?

    As far as 351 vs 302 obviously the 351 will have more pep, but don't discount the late model roller 302 with GT40 heads. Explorers which weigh as much or more as these Lincolns run these and are surprisingly quick.

    Personally I would take a roller 302 geared and cammed correctly before a non roller 351. A stroked 351 roller motor would be great though...
     
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  11. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 21,973

    Roothawg
    Member

    I just built a 2000 5.0 with the Trick Flow Stage 1 cam and the P heads for my 55. I used motor, tranny and rear end out of an Exploder. I figure that way it won’t stump the chump at the parts counter.
     
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  12. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 1,276

    birdman1
    Member

    You don't want or need an overdrive with 3.31 gears. Buy a ford f150 with a c4 or c6 and make your own mounts. If you can't weld, now is the time to learn. Have fun with your Mexican road race Lincoln
     
  13. Rynothealbino
    Joined: Mar 23, 2009
    Posts: 249

    Rynothealbino
    Member

    @Roothawg, I assume 2wd explorers are a little more common in your part of the country? Up here most are 4x4. I assume swapping out for a 2wd tailshaft would require a full disassembly?
     
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  14. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 21,973

    Roothawg
    Member

    The 2wd is mostly what we have. I would assume what you say is correct. They are cheap around here. I didn't even have a core, I just told my rebuilder what I wanted and he sourced it for me. Check with the salvage yards around here and see about getting a hamb relay together. We used to do it all the time.

    FYI, it's the same transmission in the half ton pickups.
     
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  15. OldLincolnguy55
    Joined: Jun 6, 2021
    Posts: 27

    OldLincolnguy55
    Member

    Did you decomputerize it or keep the EFI setup they had from the factory? If you did decomputerize it how much did you have to change out? I know the intake would be one of the things needing swapped though I'm somewhat new to democratization.
     
  16. Rynothealbino
    Joined: Mar 23, 2009
    Posts: 249

    Rynothealbino
    Member

    Intake and distributor is all it should really take to get rid of the computer on one of these. I think there are timing cover options which let you run the serpentine setup with a mechanical fuel pump out there. Or you could convert it to V belt so it looks more at home in your Lincoln.

    @Roothawg I think you are thinking of the relay wrong lol. We could be buying up fleets of southern 2wd Explorer's, and using them as the official HAMB relay delivery vehicle. Gut the interior and pack it full of hot rod parts. Once it has reached it's final destination it gives up it's drivetrain. I'll take mine packed full of model A and T sheetmetal and GMC inline parts.

    The OP's profile says he is 16, if he filled out the rest of his profile so we knew where he was we could get one headed his way full of donated parts and tools to get him started off in the hobby right.
     
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  17. OldLincolnguy55
    Joined: Jun 6, 2021
    Posts: 27

    OldLincolnguy55
    Member

    I've been talking to my father. He's more knowlageable than me about this kind of stuff. It seems Explorers are reasonable in my area too at least for the engine and transmission though he said with the cost of the standalone transmission control module it would be preferable in his opinion to go with the AOD. If I've read up correct they have the same transmission bolt pattern though I'm not 100%. Could this be confirmed?
     
  18. Exactly and sometimes you find a part that is a bolt in and no one has any idea where it originally came from. My '55 that I had in high school is the perfect example. When we swapped in the 312 (while it was still a ranch wagon) the *twins showed up with a full synchro 3 speed that was a bolt in. They had no idea what it came out of originally (and were not telling where they got it) and to this day I do not know anyone who has a clue about it. o_Oo_Oo_O:D:D:D

    * the twins were not Ford people (they seemed to always own a '59/'60 Chevy with a W motor) and they were often involved in some sort of a shady deal. I liked 'em but most people on this board would not. :eek::eek:
     
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  19. As long as it's attached to a SBF Windsor motor it will interchange. The 351W will require a different flexplate because of the difference in the external balance factor compared to the '82-up 302.

    As to the 302 vs 351 choice, keep in mind that while Ford did use the 302 in some fairly heavy cars, they also used a low rear axle ratio to compensate for the reduced torque output of the 302 (or the car was a slug, and they built more than a few of those). While you can match HP with a 302 vs a 351W, you'll never get equal torque as that's a function of stroke, and the short-stroke 302 just can't match up, all else being equal. If you decide on a 302 for cost reasons, you'll want at least a 3.7 rear axle ratio, a 3.9 or 4.1 would be better but then a overdrive trans becomes almost mandatory for comfortable cruising speeds. It's all about the total drivetrain package...

    I would consider a 351W/beefed C4/original rear axle with 3.31 gears as a viable combo, although you will give up some fuel economy without the overdrive. But unless this is planned as a commuter car, it shouldn't matter... LOL
     
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  20. Ford's first full year of production of in-house full-syncro transmissions was '64 and those still used the early trans pattern. They then proceeded to change it in '65 and that interchange was lost.... I'm sure that's what you had.
     
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  21. my go to Ford man and I never thought to ask. Thanks man. This has baffled me since 1969. ;)
     
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  22. OldLincolnguy55
    Joined: Jun 6, 2021
    Posts: 27

    OldLincolnguy55
    Member

    Alright! The reason why I'm looking into the AOD so much is my father is completely anti-computerized transmission and insurance on a newer car on the cheaper scale would still be around 2700$ or so under my own policy. For the same coverage on a classic like my Lincoln they are 1700$ per year. I think a Buick Park Avenue costed me 3800$
     
  23. Interesting enough, those trans aren't as valuable as the '65-up versions as the only motors they bolt to is the '58-64 FEs, the five-bolt small blocks, and the '64-back Ford OHV sixes and Y-blocks. But they are a nice upgrade....

    And another comment to @OldLincolnguy55 .... that 351W/C4 combo above would also work with an AOD. The 351 has enough torque to pull that axle ratio. A 302/AOD will struggle with that.
     
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  24. OldLincolnguy55
    Joined: Jun 6, 2021
    Posts: 27

    OldLincolnguy55
    Member

    So a 351 would be better for the AOD with my current set up. Alright I'll screen shot that so I can keep track of all the information I've gathered from everyone. I'll post some pictures of the car once it can be picked up Thursday. My main goal will be dealing with the mechanical aspects first, bodywork second, and third the inteioronce I save up a bit more. I'm also creating a comprehensive parts list. I know being prepared with as much information as possible can make sure I'm able to do everything as well as possible.
     
  25. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 9,990

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    3.31and an AOD transmission in OD equals 2.21. Not much use IMO.
     
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  26. I wouldn't try that around here given all the local elevation changes but it would be OK in the flatlands....
     
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  27. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,972

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    Yes the bolt pattern is the same but when looking for a donor non-computer AOD the best years are 1989-93 these have the later lubrication upgrades and improved valve body. Lots of good info in here: http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/drivetrain/1407-how-to-build-the-perfect-aod-aodetail As far as the proper flexplate a 351W uses a 28 ounce balance factor 1982 and later 5.0/302's are 50 ounce be sure to get the block to transmission seperator plate too. This would be correct for a 351W flexplate https://www.ebay.com/itm/352193681850?epid=220083676&hash=item52006119ba:g:FvsAAOSwHlRbNEFO
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  28. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,972

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

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  29. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 21,973

    Roothawg
    Member

    My kids got liability only insurance. If they wrecked it, they fixed it. It’s the same price for a Corvette or a 67 Chevy pickup. You will get it figured out. Hang in there.
     
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  30. OldLincolnguy55
    Joined: Jun 6, 2021
    Posts: 27

    OldLincolnguy55
    Member

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/my-1955-lincoln-capri.1233091/ here is the pictures I got. Sorry I'm posting them a bit later in the day I had to sleep after getting it home
     

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