The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mrjynx, Dec 2, 2008.
Too bad they dont do these ultra-radical concepts anymore...the ones now are pretty tame.
MRJYNX The dump was located on village Rd, about one block north from Rotunda drive,and about 300 feet east of village rd. I am sure that it is a parking lot today. Ford did a lot of building in that area in later years. Village Rd had a locked gate across it for many years,where it ends at Rotunda Dr. Now the road is open all the time,with a light at Rotunda.
Are you producing the 3D model in real life or in a computerprogram?
Crazy how they would just smash them to pieces and shove em into the ground... Im sure that must have felt wrong haha
If only you would have realised as a kid what exactly was going on you could have made a fortune on saving some of those models. Did you ever see 1:1 cars like the Mystere? Documents say it was white when distroyed in the early 70s.
On a side note, those 1:4 models were highly detailed, ive seen the Futura scale model that survived at the Peterson Museum in LA a few years back, impressive!
Id be very much interested in a 'copy' of the 3D, i have associates that own cnc machines and i could have one or two formed In scale 1:4 or 1:5 and painted to get an idea.
wont be for quite a while yet, by that I mean next couple of years but yes I will get in touch if you pm me your email.
did a quick drawing of that cadillac turned into a mystere.
This was one of the full size auto show cars that he major car builders all built up for the World Wide Auto Shows. The car still exists and is in Bill Ford's Private Collection that he inherited from his family. The collection is stunning and everything it it sis still maintained in running order. They do have website.
^^pictures link or it didnt happen. That would be good if they had it in running order as it never had an engine or mechanics.
Is there any proof of that?
I can see it happening on that base. Why start in years with the 3D?
I cannot tell if that was sarcasm. the point of me doing the mystere is that it is my dream car & will be done in my own time by a realistic schedule. when im happy with one part ill move onto the next. i am doing other things in 3d for now & when i feel like doing it i will move onto the mystere. the longer i wait, the more information seems to come up, the more it benefits me. its been a few years now already getting the information i have now as it slowly comes together. I dont expect it to be done in 5 minutes. its something i want to enjoy doing.
That front bumper looks like it found it's way to the rear of 56, and 57 Lincolns.....The "grills" became the exhaust openings.
From what I've read about many of the 50's concept cars, is that most of them were destroyed out of the fear of liability. The manufacturers were afraid that if the cars got into the hands of a private owner, they might try to put functional drivetrains in them, and then there'd be a real mess if any of them were wrecked - since they were originally built as models with zero interest in safety or good construction. I know it sounds stupid, but that's just what I've heard. GM seems to have let more of theirs survive for some reason.
@mrjinx, no sarcasm intended i was just interested in why you would wait a few years. Ive decided id like to build a model scale 1:4 out of automotive modeling clay to get this thing started. Theres many tutorials on youtube and i found a supplier from Germany. With my autobody skills im sure i can get it highly detailed and straight.
I think it would be fun to approach this from 2 different sides, you in the new school way and me in the old school way. Id like the idea of helping eachother out if neccesary like you mentioned. With a scale clay model it would be much easier to build a real operational 1:1 Mystere.
Thats a great idea, I was going to have a mess with automotive clay myself but id rather spend the money on tools atm so im sticking to 3d for now. But it does look damn fun. Like I say, im not going anywhere, I may not hamb regularly but I will always be passionate about concept cars till im an old man.
Clays hard to work with..
Here's a few from Alex Tremulis' Advanced Styling Studio.
Tremulis looking over the 3/8ths scale Ford Mexico wind tunnel model, a 200mph 1956 Thunderbird intended for the Carrera Panamericana race:
Tremulis and Romeyne Hammond, a top notch model maker, adjusting the La Tosca 3/8ths scale model that terrorized Oakwood Blvd. The guards at Ford's entrance would salute it as it drove by. At one point, its batteries ran down and would only go about 2mph, delaying the entry of one of the top execs. He failed to see the humor in it:
The 3/8ths models of La Tosca and Mexico in the Rotunda with the model makers. The Ford stylists here should be able to put names to the faces (R. Hammond, third from left). There was also the Taj Mahal 3/8ths scale wind tunnel model that I think you can see part of.
Tremulis' "Terra Cobra" that probably influenced his Seattle-ite of 1961. On the wall of the studio it says:
ADVANCED STYLING CONTRIBUTIONS:
1952 Lincoln Front/Rear Ends
1952 Ford Tail Lamps
1954(?) Ford Steering Wheel
1953 Mercury Hood Scoop
Taunus Front End
Blended Hood/Deck Shapes
Consul Front End
Visible Spare Tires
1954 Ford Twin Spinners
Rear Quarter "Kick Ups"
Metal Convertible Sedans
Jet Plane Styled Tail Lamps
Cowled Head Lamps
Combined Head Lamp/Radiator Openings
Clear Vents Aft of Center Pillar
Lowered Rear Floor Panels
Boat Type Windshield Cowls
Outboard of Frame Spare Tires
Twin Jet Pod Bumper Features
New Proportions Caused by Lower Silhouettes
New Cab/Body Trim & Shapes
Variations from the Through-Fender Theme
Brake Cooling Scoops / New Brake Locations
Radiator Scoops Replacing Expensive Grilles
Air Conditioning Scoops Incorporated Into Body
Elimination of "A" Pillar Blind Spot
(?) Entrance Room on Lower Cars
Here's a few of the Mystere from Alex Tremulis' archives. These were probably also provided to Jim and Cheryl Farrell for their book on Ford's Design Department's show cars. All new designers would go through their baptism at Ford in Tremulis' Advanced Styling Studio. There he opened the new hires' eyes to some out-of-the-box thinking. Always inspirational and often offbeat, Tremulis encouraged free-thinking in his students so as not to be swayed by the bean counters' efforts to stifle creativity and advancing the art. Of his half century plus of professionally designing cars, he always thought his greatest achievement was his influence on his students, which reads like a Who's Who in the automobile/art/movie industries. Anyway, the two old guys in the pics are Alex Tremulis and Charlie Waterhouse (I think), and of course George Walker. But first, giving credit where it's due:
Oh are you quote "Tremulis’s nephew Steve? who has started to document the restoration at GyronautX1.com." ?
Is that how you have access to that stuff?
I did try to talk to Jim and Cheryl Farrell but they werent really very talkative about their sources.
Im sure theres more photos out there. one interesting thing on page 7 of ford styling, a guys drawing what looks to be alternate designs for the mystere. due to the original bill boyer sketch in the top corner. would be cool if those still existed.
Thanks for the photos, I really am greatful for each and every one!
The Farrells spent at least 10 years directly researching the Ford concept cars and probably at least that in collecting info about them, so I could see why, with so much time and expense invested, they'd be protective of their sources. Their book is probably the most definitive piece on these Ford concepts that you can find.
We are restoring the Gyronaut land speed record bike that was a direct successor to Ford's Gyron. It carried on the concept of a small frontal area and extreme aerodynamic efficiency that Alex had beleived in. If you look at the Gyron's logo, you see it carried out on the Gyronaut through some of its record-setting runs at Bonneville. It was originally intended to have Ford's Fairlane Cobra engine, with one shipped directly from Carroll Shelby (compliments of Henry Ford II), installed as its powerplant, but that engine ended up in another Logghe Brothers' project. Here's the first paint job on the Gyronaut, probably intended to match the Summers' Bros. Goldenrod, as both of them shared the same salt time:
As for the Terra-Cobra, both the drawing you referenced and Alex's drawings were probably done around the same time. Both artists probably knew each other. Alex went on to use the "Terra-Cobra" name in 1940 at American Bantam for one of his rear-engined proposals. And then he resurrected it again at Ford over a decade later:
Alex Tremulis' first Terra-Cobra:
1940, Tremulis' American Bantam Terra-Cobra:
Tremulis' six-wheeled designs also go way back to the 1930's. His thinking was that you could get a lower profiled car by using smaller diameter wheels, using four up front for improved traction and handling, and therefore you could create a more streamlined body around it. Here's his 1938ish design for Briggs:
I'll keep looking for more Mystere pics...
Would you believe that I just found another whilst looking for something unrelated. video still.
Thats some good information i think maybe it was the dome that inspired him to call it that. Yes i would apreciate that.
I contacted ford but they just give me a scan of the mystere article from the book.
Wow that is amazing Gyronaut! This topic is getting more interesting by the day. The sideshot of the Mystere is exactly what i need. Do you know if theres a full front or rear pic still around?
I have a few more scans of Ford Experimental cars from a brochure my dad has.
BTW, if anybody wants to buy a brochure, my dad has lots (OK, 1000's) from 55 until a few years ago, PM me.
I haven't seen any pics directly from the front or back of the Mystere, but since it was such an important excersize, there must be some. Last year I spent a day at the Edsel Ford Research Library where they have archived a lot of records. A day wasn't anywhere near enough time. Although things are filed basically by their author, they are not cross referenced. In other words, if so-and-so wrote a memo about the Mystere, it would be filed under his/her name, not Mystere. So there probably are memos and photos of it, but they'd be burried deep in the files. I tried to find the 3/8ths scale models, but they weren't available. With more digging and some additional contacts, you may have some luck.
If you go, plan to spend the entire week and get to know the names of the people involved and then look into each one's files. It's a bit of a treasure hunt, but there are true treasures to be found. It's just going to take a lot of your time digging. Get to know the librarians there since that will help speed up your research. Just going through the files you can't help but get an education and a much better concept of what it was like to be a designer 60 years ago. It's a great source of preserved history and you won't find most of it in any books. The museum's not so bad either...
Do you guys think any of the 3/8s cars may exist? These pictures are pretty Cool..
The futura is at the Peterson museum in LA
Thats what i was thinking too, there must be more pics. If you look at my location youll see its quite difficult to get to the archives
Many years ago, I visited Jay Ohrberg's small shop in El Cajon. Out back, he had some weird fiberglass concept ford he'd picked up somewhere. I don't remember much about it, (was too concerned looking at the other stuff he had). It might be worth an email to him. He had the inside track on an awful lot of one off stuff.
youre thinking of Jay ohbergs futura replica. link here.
http://www.jayohrberg.com/Lincoln_Futura.html (think it was modified from a batkit.
Wow, this thread was a great read so far! Learned a lot, and made me once again, want to work in a 1950's design studio!
Good luck on your build/findings!
Separate names with a comma.