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Projects 1954 Buick build

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by Black Clover Custom, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    1954 buick traditional custom build 002 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 003 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 001 (Small) (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 004 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 005 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 006 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 007 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 008 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 009 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 015 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 017 (Small).jpg 1954 buick traditional custom build 024 (Small).jpg Well im posting my build even though it will really get going after next June! Its fully started but were gonna move to Oregon so i can only get so much done till then.
    Ive been painting since high school and always had a project since. Got serious with bikes for awhile but really started welding about a year ago after getting certified so here we go.
    Im building this 54 as a traditional custom and i have some cool parts for it. I have all the parts for it from my 55 parts car. Only missing a motor now.
    Got top secret paint plans since its the thing i do best.
    Pontiac rearend. Original posi series 2. 3.08 gears and ready to bolt and run.
    Muncie 4 speed M21 ready.
    55 buick has power steering.
    54 buick has power brakes and better frame. Not too cut up from exhausts being put in over the years.
    Only rust is a little bit on the drivers floor and the rear right window frame on the outside. The 54 was an old So Cal car club car in the 80's so it was well taken care of because its got some nearly perfect metal and bolts and parts all over. Got lucky on this car. It was supposed to be the parts for the 55!
    Both are 2dr Hardtop Specials.
    Soooooo, I have some questions!
    Can anyone help me figure out if the power brakes in the 54 will be good enough to keep if im going to find a 425 Nailhead for it? And im definitely doing a front disk brake convertion on it so im wondering if it will be enough stopping power from the original setup as far as the power brake booster.
    Also will the power steering unit from the 55 go in easy and work good with a 425? I am guessing it will so far but dont know for sure.
    I see alot of new small power booster setups on cars and wonder if i shouold just fit one in instead.
    Biggest question of all will be the 425 to muncie 4 speed. Wondering if they make adapters to mate them together??? I have the muncie with bellhousing from a 350 4bolt but i know that doesnt fit so i am in the search of a way to bolt them together. Any help with this stuff will be amazing man.
    I am using the stock rear upper cups and bagging it. Not looking for a ton of slam but just some lowering in the rear and bagged.
    Front im going to go with drop spindles and dropped springs and do the disk brake swap. Then put in a big stabilizer bar kit on it and see how she handles! If i dont like how it handles later i can go a different way but i think that should be good for a street car right?
    So im gonna post some pics of the cars. Hope you guys like the build and chime in on it so i wont bust too many knuckles doing it twice or just the wrong way. They came apart easy though!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
    PraiseDLowrd likes this.
  2. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    Brakes:
    You DEFINITELY want to convert to a dual-reservoir master cylinder. I have a '54, and blew a brand new rear wheel cylinder, and had no brakes. That sucks, trust me.
    I found that a C1 Corvette master cylinder had the same mounting pattern as the Buick, so I ordered a manual dual reservoir conversion kit for an early Corvette from Master Power Brakes. It was a bolt-in under the floor of the Buick. Mine was manual brakes and I kept it that way, though I'm sure a small-diameter booster would work too.
    Sell the factory Power Brake set-up to a restorer.

    425 Nailhead: You'll have a lot more luck finding a 401--they're literally EVERYWHERE. The 425 is a good bit harder to come by. The 425 is usually more expensive to buy, and then the pistons are usually more expensive. You aren't racing--go find yourself a nice, low-mile 401 and call it good.

    There ARE adapters out there to go from a Nailhead to a Chevy bellhousing pattern... but they also require a spacer on the crank to take up the distance of the adapter. Opinions vary on whether that's okay or not. The last time I checked, there was a company making new adapter bellhousings, but they're pretty spendy. Then again, so is an original Nailhead 4-speed bellhousing. There's no cheap way to put a 4-speed behind a Nailhead.

    I haven't looked in a long time, so I don't know if anyone makes a drop spindle for them. If they do, that'd be awesome. I went with Jamco lowering coils front and rear on mine, and was incredibly pleased with the parts, the look and the ride quality. Over the last few years, there's been.... "mixed reviews" on Jamco.

    Front sway bar: I happen to carry a 1-inch front sway bar kit for these cars! It's a direct bolt-in. 1-inch diameter bar, with a 500in/lb spring rate. The original bar is .69-inch and has a 113lb spring rate.
    Powder-coated black, urethane bushings, all new plated hardware. $219 plus shipping. I started with 50, I have 18 left, and I have three guys that are probably going to buy this week, so figure I've got 15 left. Haven't decided if I'll order more. Everyone who has them has said they're awesome--all very happy.

    Good luck on the project! Looks like you have a tremendous starting point.

    -Brad
     
  3. Hdonlybob
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 4,115

    Hdonlybob
    Member

    That is a great body style, especially in the two door hard top !
    Good luck !
     
  4. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Thanks a bunch guys.
    Well i am leaning hard towards the 401 instead of the 425 but if i get lucky and find a 425 its going in! Haha.
    Sooooo, not good about the brakes. I guessed a newer setup would be better though.
    Gambino has drop spindles i just saw!
    And Bendtsens has a buick motor to chevy 4spd complete kit with no spacer so im good. Just gonna check to see if its the M21 or M22 that i have.
    I got lucky and broke loose the upper coil cup bolts out of both cars so i can bolt up the OG rear for the ride to Eugene. That means i am taking the power steering stuff off of the 55 frame now. Didnt want to take two cars up to Oregon.
    Guess i got to start looking for some cool pedals for this.
    Thanks again for the info.
    Oh and sorry about the cut up 55 body but its for sale!
    Oh yeah! Is it still traditional if i dont do windows on the sides and make covers for the open space that can come off? I would leave it original underneath incase i want windows later. Just wondering.
     

  5. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Power steering and rearend is out of the 55.
    OG rearend is going into the 54 tmrw.
    Like a really slow greasy magic trick thats kinda boring... here you see two buicks... i will make one disappear!
    Without messing up my back too much. 55 buick frame 002 (Small).jpg 55 buick frame 003 (Small).jpg
     
  6. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Definitely going to buy that swaybar from you! Hope they dont sell out in a couple weeks.
     
  7. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    Just for giggles, if you've got both rear ends, check the gear ratios on them, and then choose accordingly.
    Also double-check the width from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. The Specials had thinner rear drums, but I don't remember if the widths were different from one model to the next.

    -Brad
     
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  8. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Cool. The gear ratio in the 55 rearend that i just put on today to get her rolling is 40/12 stamped on the big gear. But im going with the olds posi anyway.
    That olds rearend is just shy of 60"!
    And i got lucky and am going to look at a running 401 tmrw in a 63 i found!

    54 buick custom (Small).jpg
     
  9. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Got a rebuilt 401 (K,T) running smooth and was rebuilt. Actually heard it running before i pulled the motor and gave the guy the cash.
    The build really has its nuts and bolts now! Came with rebuilt carb and new alternator and leaky power stearing pump but i removed them.
    buick 401 running! 001 (Small).jpg buick 401 running! 002 (Small).jpg
     
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  10. buickvalvenut
    Joined: Oct 29, 2008
    Posts: 660

    buickvalvenut
    Member
    from Rialto

    Want to get rid of the spare A arms?
     
    german franco likes this.
  11. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    Great score on the engine! Congrats.
     
  12. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Got some 45 fins today. Looks like they slide right on using 54 spindle. I'll check tmrw for sure but they did slide right over the extra backing plates i have without any interference!
    Gotta figure out the rear shoes now if i can find out what those backing plates on the pontiac rear are. Any help???? Haha. 45 fin buick drums  on 54 custom 001 (Small).jpg 45 fin buick drums  on 54 custom 002 (Small).jpg 45 fin buick drums  on 54 custom 003 (Small).jpg 45 fin buick drums  on 54 custom 004 (Small).jpg
     
  13. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    pontiac rearend backing plates. Anybody know what drums i can use with this setup?!? Thanks in advance.
    oldspontiac big ford 9 w locker 007 (Small).jpg oldspontiac big ford 9 w locker 008 (Small).jpg
     
  14. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    The last I checked, the '54 spindles required '54-'55 bearings, and no others worked. I did a LOT of checking on that, too. The bearing race has a unique shoulder on it.
    With the right machinist, you could have a spacer made to fit different bearings... it's basically just the OD, ID and depth of bearings that you need to concern yourself with (load, too, of course, but a good bearing supply place will help with all those specs). What I ended up doing was taking the hub out of my stock '54 drums and fitting it into the finned drums, which required machining the lip of the drum a little. I don't remember the specifics... I ended up not finishing that part of the project, and just screwed the hubs back to the stock drums until the car came off the road.
    retrofitting the finned drums CAN be done, but it's not simply a matter of sliding them onto the stock spindles.
     
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  15. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    I found this out today. Oh well.
    I had a plan B which is what you ended up doing. I just wonder if the rivets after they are cut off just slide off with a little hammer work or if they have to be pressed out. But thats what im going to do is put the fins on the original hub. Wonder also if they have to be re-riveted on perfectly in center so it will all be balanced and not wobbling around.
    When these are put on Ford hubs do they just bolt them on or rivet? Are they then centered and balanced? Or do Hot Rodders just run them slid over the lug nuts letting the wheel and lug nut tighten them on? Thanks for the info.
    How do you get paid for your stabilizer kit?
     
  16. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    At first, I put them on just over the hubs, held in place by the studs and the wheel itself.
    I ate a set of wheel bearings. Which, if you haven't found out already, are expensive.
    I tapped (threaded) the rivet holes in the hub, and used button-head screws to secure the drums to the hubs, and a little blue loctite.
    I had no balance issues that way.
    I don't remember specifically how hard the rivets were to get out... I probably cut the head off and used a hammer and drift to knock them out.
    I take paypal or USPS money orders for the sway bar kits. Shoot me your zipcode and I'll get a shipping quote for you.

    -Brad
     
  17. Fr. Buick
    Joined: Oct 17, 2005
    Posts: 177

    Fr. Buick
    Member

    Franco, I did this adaption on a '54 also. I did take the completed hub and drum assemblies to a brake shop for a light grinding, just in case. It won't hurt to try without doing so...

    I have longer guide-pins made up if you plan on using the Buick wheels and lug bolts. PM me if interested. I have other stuff as well...

    BTW, if you can get Roadmaster backing plates and shoes, you have bigger and better brakes - 2.5 width. The new drums are a very nice improvement. My Super, with factor AC weighs 4660 pounds, and she stops nicely.
     
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  18. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Sounds like what i will be doing.
    I was kinda thinking of cuting the rivet tops and using them to guide the drum onto the hub and just weld them in place from the inner side onto the hub so they wont fall out. Maybe that would place them right in the perfect spot dead center. I dont know. Not that worried about it.
    Thanks for the future swaybar kit. 92374.
     
  19. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Yeah have to get them turned (cleaned up ) anyway! Just a bit.
    Roadmaster huh? Perfect. Thought bigger brakes were out there! Cool.
    The 54 will be the Roadspecial then.
     
  20. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    So I talked to C.A.R. Nailhead guy out in Grass Valley Ca. and got his 401 to 1954 motor mount plate kit info to make my own. (sold out currently) and i thought HEY, why dont i just take the 401 motor mounts with the 4 holes and use the 1 hole thats threaded to bolt the original 322 mounts onto it and weld the two together? Bamm. Home made original buick mounts.
    Think it will work because his diagram of the plates and the upper center hole on the 401 mount look real close. Within 1/4 inch and with the 401 mount being 1/2 inch taller where they would be welded together that center hole would need to move about a 1/4 inch lower anyway. Makes sense to me and if it doesnt work i have an extra set of 322 mounts anyway.
    Pics to follow of the bolted and welded 322 mount and 401 mount.
    Brain keeps working to save $.
     
  21. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Posting new thread on motor mount find!!! Sort of tech article. Gonna save some more $$
    Posting it as 1954 buick build 401 motor mount setup, in the traditional forum i think.
    Found out today how to run two 401 motormount setups based on the conversion kit plate but using stock 401 mounts!!! No need to buy plates or even make them. Check it out. I have a template made up of the holes needed and you can use it upside down as well? Yup.
    You can even use the stock motor mount 401 with the rubber on it (original) and lign it up with the lower holes to end up with a fit that raises the motor 5/8". Just cut drill tap or weld. $$ saved.
    I will be checking my template with the conversion plates when they arrive to make ytriple sure the holes are in the right place as far as the 322 lining up. But they do work!




    buick 322 to 401 motor mount setup and template. 015 (Small).jpg buick 322 to 401 motor mount setup and template. 014 (Small).jpg buick 322 to 401 motor mount setup and template. 015 (Small).jpg buick 322 to 401 motor mount setup and template. 014 (Small).jpg buick 322 to 401 motor mount setup and template. 017 (Small).jpg
     
  22. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    buick 322 to 401 motor mount setup and template. 036 (Small).jpg
    Extra length from tab cut. Fits nice. buick 322 to 401 motor mount setup and template. 035 (Small).jpg
    Weld up here on cut tab edge. buick 322 to 401 motor mount setup and template. 028 (Small).jpg
    And bolt from underneath onto stock threads and done. Tow to Oregon.
     
  23. Flat Roy
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 533

    Flat Roy
    Member

    I'm no expert, but I remember one of the things my dad (Buick mechanic all the days of his life) did to my 55 century back in 1960. Along with changing to aluminum front break drums , he also changed the spindles to 1956. He said the 55's had no caster where as the 56's had caster and steered better. Just some thing to check out.
     
  24. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Cool, also heard the 2 1/2" shoes came from 56 also. More to find out about and swap in. Thanks.
    Gonna swap in 45 fins on the rear also just because they are lighter. But the rear is a 59 pontiac posi so i dont think it will be very easy to figure out without milling down some of those nice fins a bit.
    I build cafe racers and bobbers so some of the weight loss part of the motorcycle world will be getting done to this car. But carefully. Like the inner fenders will lose some weight and the driveshaft will be alluminum. And anything else that i can reduce the weight of cleanly.
    Lighter is faster and better mpg. Right?
     
  25. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Got the news. buick template check (Small).jpg
    Nailhead buick's (Martin) stuff came today and the holes he sent line up perfect!
    My template is on top. So the lower holes to use the stock 401 with rubber work on my template. Gooooood news.
     
  26. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    buick spindle hub id od 001 (Small).jpg
    54 buick spindle inner i.d. 1.375 (A5) bearing buick spindle hub id od 002 (Small).jpg
    54 buick spindle outer i.d..844 (A3) bearing buick spindle hub id od 005 (Small).jpg
    So thats the skinny on the bearings.
    1964 45 fin drum hub measured out to be inner o.d. 2.563 (A5) and outer o.d.1.969 (A3) bearings.
    That means i can run the A5/A3 on the 45 fin drums stock with hub and not have to drill and tap or bolt the 54 hub to it. Just run it stock.
    But i do need the spacers made up from Scarebird to either use the A51 they do in the kit or just use them to space it out properly and run the A5. Done.
    Ordered spacers and checking when they get here.
    $saved
     
  27. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Got the wheel spacers from Scarebird. Nice. wheel bearing spacers 008 (Small).jpg
    Heres some demensions on the spacer incase anyone needs to make one. wheel bearing spacers 002 (Small).jpg wheel bearing spacers 003 (Small).jpg wheel bearing spacers 004 (Small).jpg wheel bearing spacers 005 (Small).jpg wheel bearing spacers 006 (Small).jpg wheel bearing spacers 007 (Small).jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  28. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Forget it man. Looking at the spacer Im thinking that the long part is too thin! (.060) Wondering if putting the A51 bearing over this part and then onto the spindle if over time with these heavy cars it will crack. Plus the A51 bearings are more expensive. Im just going to cut that piece off and leave the spacer at a total 1/2" length and just run the cheaper A5 bearing infront of it. Way stronger sitting directly on the spindle and cheaper and it is shared by all the 64-66 buicks and the 71-74 disc brake buicks. My 54 buick will also share the A5/A3 bearing combo also.
     
  29. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Looked on Kustomrama website and found the story on the 53 Bozio Buick. That is a proper Buick huh?
    Gives me tons of motivation to do this car right. Have an idea for the hood that hasnt been done yet too.
     
  30. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 501

    Black Clover Custom
    Member

    Progress with motor mounts. I just welded them together. Nailhead Buicks template to thank.
    Doing all this while taking care of my little 3yr old girl isnt easy, but shes learning a ton about cars already. 54 buick motor mounts welded 003 (Small).jpg 54 buick motor mounts welded 002 (Small).jpg
     

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