Hot Rods 1952 331 hemi fluid drive

I'm having trouble with the idea of using the original torque converter/clutch assembly. This is an extended bell housing block and I'm wondering if anyone out in hamb land has used this setup in their hotrod? It seams to me that it would be a waste of power/fuel milage not to have a direct drive clutch like all regular set-ups.Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated. I looked at the adapter setups to eliminate the torque converter but at a cost of around a $1000.00 its a hard pill to swallow at least on my pension.
Randy

 

The extended block is a little more difficult but its not the end of the world. Your right that the original stuff is not the most efficient. You can't avoid the adapters really, the original setup has a different crank bolt pattern vs the non extended hemis, so you need the special flywheel if you want to run a manual. The 727 adapter requires that you cut off the bellhousing on the Small block 727 for it to work but may be your best option cost wise.

http://www.wilcap.com/Hemi.html

http://hothemiheads.com/transmission_adapters/chrysler_to_727.518.html

 

Traditionally we dealt with these things because that was what was there that we could afford. I bought an Offy adapter, I think, and maybe an aluminum flywheel. It took some machine work, but it was stuff you could do at home with normal garage tools. Today I might look into adapting some more readily available flywheel. But now I have a lathe and mill and have learned to use them. It won't be easy. But lots of guys did it years ago.

 

Thanks guys, I was thinking about welding a tab on the converter to keep the clutch assembly from spinning separately but then I would need to consider the pilot bearing. Maybe save up and bite the bullet with new stuff.

 

I had a Packard trans behind mine. I had to drill the crank 15/16 or somesuch. Did it with a hand held drill motor. Pilot bushings looked like this. Stuck out to reach the input shaft

 

Thanks Rich, I'm going to stay with it for now as I'm sure there is a pilot bushing in there for the original trans.I have never experienced a standard with a torque converter so I think it might come in handy for the wife to cruise around at the shows (she is not much for the clutch). I'm taking it that the torque is self contained so I'll drain it and fill with new oil,there must be a certain amount that is filled when the torque is turned so plug is at 12 o'clock I'm assuming.

 

Find yourself the parts from a late 53 331 with Powerflite. Put a Powerflite or early Torqueflite in there and be done.

 

One thing about long bellhousing Chryslers is that the bellhousing is really long. So much so that the input shaft from most standard transmissions will not reach the crank flange. Hence the need for the extended pilot bushing. My adapter was a flat plate maybe 3/4 inch thick. As I remember I used a pilot bushing like the black one. Also you will need to cut a pretty serious hole in the starter mount for the through out arm. I think mine used a Chevy or Buick ball mount and arm. In those days if you needed a 38 Buick throw out fulcrum you just went to one of several local junk yards and got one. That don't happen anymore.

 

"... the original setup has a different crank bolt pattern vs the non extended hemis..." Not true.

The Mopar A-833 has the requisite input shaft length.
This subject has been covered several times and some details were offered in a thread a few years back as to making an adapter with only a few hours of machine time needed. It is doable.
The only issue for some folks is using a hydraulic throw-out bearing vs chopping a hole in the extension.
With the stock housing/starter mount an also stock 146 tooth flywheel bolts-up and lines up.

No 'rocket science' involved.

.

 

Thanks there is a lot of stuff on there!!
Randy

 

There is a lot going on here that you need to know about. First, the 51 Chrysler was available with either a Fluid Drive unit or a torque converter, called Fluid Torque Drive.

You can tell them apart in different ways but one way is, the Fluid Drive unit is completely self contained. It is filled with oil and that's it. The torque converter has a separate oil supply in an oil pan under the bellhousing like an automatic.

If it is Fluid Drive there is a fill hole in the bellhousing capped by a tin knockout plug. Standing behind the engine, the fill hole is about 2 o'clock. They put it there for a reason, you must leave an air space for expansion or the Fluid Drive unit will blow up when it gets hot. Turn the Fluid Drive unit so the fill plug lines up with the hole in the bellhousing and you will automatically fill it to the right level.

The Fluid Torque Drive trans was a 4 speed, and a better performer than the 2 speed Powerflite that came after it. The hemi V8 and Fluid Torque drive has plenty of punch if you know how to work it.

Having said that, they were pretty well always replaced with manual transmissions for hot rod and performance use.

Anything else you want to know, ask in a reply to this question and I will try to give you a good answer.

 

Awesome thanks!! I built many cars over the years but they were always a 350-350 9 inch so as I've gotten older I would like to run old stuff like the older generation did back in the day but use a few "modern" safety things. I have the stand alone self contained torque converter that I am running.
Randy

 

There is no stand alone self contained torque converter. There is a stand alone self contained Fluid Drive unit and there is a torque converter which has a separate oil supply, either in an oil pan or in 1953, from the engine crankcase.

I'm not busting your balls, they ARE different and it DOES make a difference which you have.

The Fluid Drive is simpler, but less efficient. No tire burner on takeoff but fine once you get rolling. You can improve performance by putting in less oil. This has the same effect as a high stall speed torque converter.

In the interest of economy you can keep the stock trans and Fluid Drive but you will need the electrical control system including the stock 2 barrel carburetor with electric switches, or rig up 2 switches on the throttle linkage. You also need a small resistor, a circuit breaker, and some wire. Everything else is built into the transmission.