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1951 Ford Truck Project Pics

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Scott in Missouri, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. 1bdsinner
    Joined: Jun 6, 2006
    Posts: 544

    1bdsinner
    Member
    from phoenix

    Wow looks good i got a 52 as I am on a tight budget I bought a 73 chevy nova complete for 300 bucks and subframed it and flipped rear end. I like the fact you kept it all straight axle on front I just could not afford the drop axle etc plus I got a extra motor,trans,pedals rear end off the Chevy and sold the body for 150 bucks haha. My truck has some after market bumper that wraps around the rear to the rear fenders. I never seen em but i am sending it to the chromer!. good work!
     
  2. cool shop truck-love the low stance
     
  3. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,285

    Mart
    Member

    Nice tech thread. Should be submitted for tech month.
    Mart.
     
  4. ttarver
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 406

    ttarver
    Member
    from austin

    lets see a pic of it on the ground
     
  5. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    Powder Coating:
    I dropped the parts off at the sand blaster yesterday afternoon and Marc at Powder Paint Inc. in Lebanon, MO called this morning and told me the were done- Less than 20 hours. The stuff looks great against the painted chassis and all new hardware/grade five bolts. Time for some assembly.
    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    After I de-burred all the pieces and cleaned out some of the holes I started to put all the rear end pieces together and then mount them on the frame. The first thing was to put all the bushings in the springs and rear shackle. This is very easy IF you paid $9.50 for the tool. I beat and beat on the old ones and they come out, but I couldn’t imagine doing it with a socket or something without the step that aligns everything. I hammered so much that the tool kept getting rounded over on the edges so I gave it a quick touch up on the grinder throughout the process. This was definitely “Tool of the week”.
    After all the bushings were installed I laid out all the springs and hardware and assembled them one at a ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]tim</st1:personName>e. Once they were on the truck I had to use the old U-bolts (until the new ones arrive) to hold it together and check the new ride height…Drum roll please…Three inches. Remember there is no bed/weight on it and I didn’t take out every other leaf like many do. I may go back later and remove a couple more, but this should be about right for now and I will also be able to put a heavy bike in the back without bottoming out. If your want yours lower I would remove three leafs and the width of those springs alone is ¾”. When I started, the bottom of the frame was 21” high (without the bed on) and now you can see in the picture it is about 18” without the bed on.
    Front Shackle:
    A couple notes hear- You can see the bracket I made from angle iron would not allow a nut on the back side. I drilled and tapped the top two and just used grade-eight bolts with lock washers on the bolt heads. I could have made this a little higher, but that would require drilling new holes in the frame instead of just using the top two holes that were there. Also, I only had about 2 1/2” between the top of the frame and the bottom of the bed wood so there is not a lot of room here. I measured out the actual distance and it is two to one- Two inches at the front shackle gets you one in the center at the axle center so a lot of fooling around and frame drilling may get another ½” or so. I decided to pass.
    The two bolts you see holding the brackets on the top of the frame look to be in an odd position- Close together and in the center/offset on the bracket. The reason is that these were holes that were already there to hold the cross member you see in place. They were rivets and are a job to get out, but they are in the right spot. You have probably noticed I avoiding drilling a bunch of holes in vintage stuff. I will if I have to, but the main reason I recommend using these holes is because the rivets are in the way anyway and would have to be removed for the bracket to lay flat. It just works out.
    Scott
     

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  7. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    Rear Shackle:
    You can see in the picture (with no weight on the truck) the shackle is pointing forward. When you jump on it goes back and the clearance cut in earlier is needed- Simple, but necessary because it will move back quite a ways without binding. Again, this is pretty easy because all you really do is flip the rear mount over and this one gives you the majority of the drop. Now the pinion angle is different though because the back is actually higher up than the front and therefore the rear end is nose down a bit. I bought an angle finder today for about $6 and will check this when I do the transmission and driveshaft work this week.
    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Ford52PU
    Joined: Jan 31, 2007
    Posts: 473

    Ford52PU
    Member
    from PA

    Scott,

    Great post, love the work your doing on your truck. I love the bed, did you put any kind of stain on the cedar?
    Keep up the great work and posts.
     
  9. damn, where bouts are ya in MO>???? may have to come steal your talents sometime!!! :)
    great work man!
     
  10. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    Transmission Swap:
    The plan was to switch the old three-speed (column shift) to a newer T5 out of an S10. The rewards would be three fold for me; First, overall drivability in town where you will need a closer ratio in gears. Second, smoother shifting since the old trans grinds into first (without a synchronizer). Last, but the biggest gain for me, the fifth gear is Over Drive so I can actually go over 45 MPH without the truck taching too high on the road.
    Since there are a lot of great articles out already on the T5 swap to a flathead, I am not going to be the master mind of any of this. What you will read here is an easy way to understand all of the mountains of information I had to learn to do what my swap. The HUGE missing piece in all the articles I read was how everyone assumed an advanced knowledge of just about everything mechanical and I was often lost while reading. It wasn’t so much jargon as there seemed an assumption that the reader had already performed one of these swaps or had the parts in front of them. This will be easy to understand because I have pictures to show how difficult this swap really is. My biggest problem was getting my mind around what would be involved BEFORE I started. Again, I would recommend reading more technical articles and comparing them with mine. I may be wrong on some points and hope someone points that out. Here is what I found.

    Selecting a transmission. There are several different years and models of S10s to pull a five speed T5 out of (Mustangs and Jeeps too) and I tried to find the earliest years so that I would get a manual speedometer cable instead of digital. The other thing to consider is what the final ratio will be based on your OD- Basically .72, .76 or .86. I want the .72 or .76 for the lowest RPMs out on the highway. I checked and rechecked the year models listed on other tech articles and also the size motors that should have the transmission I wanted. I found exactly what I needed- A 1986 S10, 2.5 liter with a five speed OD. I went to pick it up and it was neither a cable drive speedo nor a .72/.75, but a .86. All in all it didn’t really matter because it will still be fine, but just not ideal. The easiest way to check the trans for the OD gear ratio is to mark the INPUT shaft at the 12:00 o’clock position and then spin the OUTPUT shaft (yoke) exactly one turn. A .72/.76 will turn ¾ of the way around and mine didn’t. If you are tracking along then it will not be too much of an intellectual leap to figure out that mine went passed 75% to about 86% of the way around and was the .86. No real problem though, just passed that on so you can learn from my situation and not your own.
    Once I got the trans home I changed the fluid, rear seal and cleaned/painted it up a bit- All general preparation stuff. I would also like to take a minute to thank the guy at the salvage yard (who will remain nameless). I hope the minute he saved out of his day by breaking the head off the bolt in the aluminum trans was worth it. It only took me an hour to drill, tap, break a bolt off, re-drill, re-tap and finally DRILL the entire hole out and use a longer bolt with a nut…Thanks buddy~
    The biggest part for me was having everything in front of me to understand how it works and needed to go together. Here is what you will need (See picture):
    <O:p
    T5 Transmission- Must get one with a removable bell housing.
    Adapter plate/housing- There are only two to chose from- Ford clutch or the Chevy (S10) clutch. I used the Ford clutch one from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]</st1:City>Speedway.
    Adapter Sleeve- this goes over the S10 input shaft to make the smaller S10 shaft Outer Diameter (OD) larger for The Ford throw-out bearing Inner Diameter (ID). Looks like a ring in the pic, but is about 3” long.
    Pilot Bushing Adapter- This comes with the adapter plate/housing. Very small sleeve that goes over the end of the T5 input shaft and then goes into the pilot
    bushing. It is sitting on the paper in the picture.
    Bolts- You will need four ½” x 13 hardened bolts- one inch long for the trans to bolt to the adapter. The ones in the trans are metric and the adapter is 1/2x13.
    You will also have to drill (just a hair) the four holes in the trans to ½”. I also replaced the solid pin, that holds the fork to the large clutch rod,
    With a hardened bolt. This was because I had to drill the head off the old
    one and punch/cut it out. It is in the picture too.
    Clutch Fork and Rod- Remove these from your old transmission, clean and re-install in the new adapter plate/housing.
    <O:p</O:p
    NOTE: Before placing the Adapter sleeve over the input shaft…please listen…you have to use emory cloth to surface/remove enough material so the spacer slides over. DO NOT try to hammer this on. I read this on another guy’s article, but didn’t understand what he was talking about. Look at the picture and you will see that after about 10 minutes of work the spacer and also the pilot bushing adapters will both slide on cleanly.
    Scott
    <O:p</O:p
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    Making things fit:
    Any project is a series of solutions to problems and making things work. To expect all the parts to fit is like expecting a 2X4 to be cut to size when you bring it home. Some times it could be easier though~

    NOTE: TO <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]</st1:City>SPEEDWAY MOTORS/OFFENHAUSER:
    1-How about including the four bolts that are needed to bolt the transmission to the adapter? I think that a $300 kit should include the four bolts and not send the customer to the hardware store wondering how long they need to be.
    2-Make the adapter plate fit around the starter nose. There is plenty of material there. They make mention that you “may have to clearance” around the starter. The word “clearance” leads me to believe I need a file or a chisel. As you can see from the pictures, you will need to cut out about ½”- 3/4” around the starter. It is not hard, but I have a metal ban saw and many guys do not. My big gripe was that I put the trans in the truck and was holding it with one hand and trying to start a bolt with another when…I noticed it was hitting the starter. Again, learn from my situation and do all this on the floor before you lift it up in place.
    Scott
     
  12. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    Making things fit:
    Any project is a series of solutions to problems and making things work. To expect all the parts to fit is like expecting a 2X4 to be cut to size when you bring it home. Someffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]</st1:personName>times it could be easier though~

    NOTE: TO <st1:City w:st="on">SPEEDWAY</st1:City> MOTORS/OFFENHAUSER:
    1-How about including the four bolts that are needed to bolt the transmission to the adapter? I think that a $300 kit should include the four bolts and not send the customer to the hardware store wondering how long they need to be.
    2-Make the adapter plate fit around the starter nose. There is plenty of material there. They make mention that you “may have to clearance” around the starter. The word “clearance” leads me to believe I need a file or a chisel. As you can see from the pictures, you will need to cut out about ½”- 3/4” around the starter. It is not hard, but I have a metal ban saw and many guys do not. My big gripe was that I put the trans in the truck and was holding it with one hand and trying to start a bolt with another when…I noticed it was hitting the starter. Again, learn from my situation and do all this on the floor before you lift it up in place.
    Scott
     
  13. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    Pics wouldn't come through~
     

    Attached Files:

  14. This is better than a threesome!
     
  15. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    Removing the old transmission cross member:
    I already took the seat and floor pan out for the project so you can see the old cross member was right in the way and the new T5 had to go directly through it. There wasn’t going to be any adapting, but cutting out and then making a new transmission cross member that will be a few inches further back. I measured the transmission around where it would be going through the old support and it was 10” so I cut a 12” section out to give me room on both sides. I placed a ruler on the old support and marked 6” to the left then to the right with a white paint pen. I used a square to try and make a straight/vertical line and then used a piece of angle iron and a “C” clamp as a guide for my torch- Kind of a ghetto line burner. I figured the more ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]tim</st1:personName>e I spent getting ready for the cut would be a lot of <st1:personName w:st="on">tim</st1:personName>e I saved with the grinder straightening out a sloppy, jagged or crooked cut. Everything worked out ok and the 12” piece hit the floor and gave a nice fit to the transmission.
    After these sections, the transmission should be ready to mate up the clutch/flywheel/motor which I will cover later.
    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    A couple replies to some posts~

    1-Thanks for all the kind words. Hope this helps others.

    2-No stain on the wood- Raw cedar should look gray like an old fence before long.

    3-No paint either.

    Scott
     
  17. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,690

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    Is using the trans from behind a 2.5L 4-cyl in an F1 behind a Flathead V8 wise? My understanding was that the 4-cyl 5-speeds were kinda on the weak side when compared with those used behind the 4.3L V6 and here you're saddling one with more torque and (I think) a heavier truck.

    Notwithstanding, this is a very cool project and the thorough documentation is much appreciated.

    -Dave
     
  18. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    Dave,
    No problem. The T5s are good up to 400 HP from my research. This is a common swap too which is why they make the adapter. Remember the same T5s are found in mustangs also- with the shifter further to the rear.
    I don't think the HP in these old flatheads is going to break anything here- I have the big one and it is 100 HP when new. The smaller flathead is 85 HP.
    Scott
     
  19. collector
    Joined: May 18, 2006
    Posts: 77

    collector
    Member
    from madera,ca

    scott,thanks for all your time . great post and good pictures and info.let us know how it runs and drives. thanks again.
     
  20. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    The Clutch:
    Here is the down and dirty- You are using the flathead flywheel and obviously bolted to that is the flathead pressure plate. This pressure plate is 10” also. In between those two surfaces needs to be an S10 clutch disk. The reason you need the S10 clutch disc is because you are now sliding it over the S10 spline on the transmission and that spline is a 14 tooth as opposed the Ford’s 10 tooth spline. The only other significant difference in the two clutch disks, other than the spline, is the size of surface area. The Ford is 10” across and the S10 is 9 ¼” in diameter. The inside of the clutch has springs to lessen the engagement/contact jolt. The center of the S10 clutch disk has some of the hardware/design in about a 5” center (where my left middle finger is pointing). The inside of the Ford flywheel has a dish where it is bolted to the crank and this dished area in the center is about 4 ¾” in diameter (where my left index finger is pointing). You need to have the dish’s diameter opened up by about ¼” so the new S10 clutch disk will fit down inside this area and lay flat on the flywheel and allow contact. That is it.
    Prices:
    $60- Machine work- I would recommend having the flywheel face re-surfaced while your machine shop has it in the lathe.
    $33- S10 Clutch disc.
    $61- Ford Pressure Plate.
    I was concerned if the smaller S10 (9 ¼”) disk would have enough contact patch on the flywheel and pressure plate (10”). In the picture you may be able to see that the entire fiber area of the S10 clutch disc is making contact with the flywheel and the pressure plate. No problem.
    Some places offered an S10 clutch disk that was 10 ½” or 10 ¼” and if you look at the disk lying on the pressure plate- there is not enough room. The 9 ¼” is the one that fits.
    After ordering all of the parts and “kits”, I think this is the missing link that makes it all work together. So here is the recipe.
    Next, I will be building a transmission mount/ cross member out of steel and modifying the shifter arm.
    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

  21. Midwest Rodder
    Joined: Dec 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,768

    Midwest Rodder
    Member

    This is a great thread! Where you located in MO?
     
  22. 93chevy55
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 207

    93chevy55
    Member

    hey love the truck. im 15 workin on my first ride its a 55 chevy pu 2nd series and i want to lower it and i was thinking of the drop axel for the front but still stumped on what to do for the back. the way you fliped the shackels in the back does it lower it alot and is there any big problems with doing that
    the truck looks great thogh
    -kujo
     
  23. Wow, this is great! Thanks for posting and being so thorough. I just got a &#8216;55 F-100 I&#8217;ve been after for a while. I&#8217;ve grown a soft spot for old Ford trucks lately after a lifetime of being a Chevy guy. I&#8217;ve had my eye on a sweet &#8216;51 F-1 for a couple of years now too. I&#8217;ll get the guy talked out of it someday. Again, thanks for posting, this is a great thread.
     
  24. Dyce51
    Joined: Aug 17, 2007
    Posts: 274

    Dyce51
    Member
    from Ohio

    Hats off to ya Scott!! That build is looking great keep the updates commin!!!!
     
  25. HotRodMicky
    Joined: Oct 14, 2001
    Posts: 1,768

    HotRodMicky
    Member

    The new Speedway adpater plate should plate fit around the starter nose.
    Watch the thickness of the S10 clutch disk compared to the stock
    flathead one....too thin and it will slip...
    Michael
     
  26. Thanks for this informative post! I'll definitely be referring back to it when the good weather hits!
     
  27. This is one of the best tech threads I've read here. Thanks!
     
  28. rick finch
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 2,003

    rick finch
    Member

    Great work, you are a machine! Nicely done!:cool:
     
  29. Scott in Missouri
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 79

    Scott in Missouri
    Member
    from Missouri

    Cross Member:
    Now that the transmission is bolted up into place I used a cheap angle finder to set the motor at about 3-4 degrees down in the back. After it was set in place and supported by a small floor jack I started measuring and making the cross member. The stock cross member from the S10 is a very thin and weak looking piece so the 2” tubing and ¼” steel are much stronger than what was being replaced. After a lot of measuring, checking and re-checking I cut and made the mount.
    First I cut the two ends that were hanging mounts and rounded them to match the 2” pipe. A tack weld would work for checking the fit. I then used angle iron and two reinforcing pieces to for the platform that the rubber mount will mount to.
    I decided to hang it off the outside of the frame rails and drill holes to secure it. I used a “C” clamp to hold the left side in place by the new power assist unit for the brakes. I then used a level to make sure the bar was level and also against the steel mount that I already bolted on the rubber mount. Now it was just a matter of getting it all to touch and tack weld it in place. I also made all the markings for the side hangers so that I can drill the holes for the final installation after welding.
    This piece fits in underneath the truck and does not hang down lower than any other part. I could have bought a pre-made mount, but I would have had to make major modifications to fit around the brake master cylinder. I decided to just make it from scratch.
    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

  30. bumpercarkid
    Joined: Aug 28, 2007
    Posts: 226

    bumpercarkid
    Member
    from Orion, MI

    Lookin good. I always have like the 50's pickups.
     

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