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Technical 1951 Deluxe (235/PG) STARTER questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by G ., Nov 6, 2017.

  1. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    Having a hell of a time finding the correct starter for my vehicle. I learned over the weekend that the starter makes a slight click when hit with 12v. The tiniest little "dink" and thats it. It needs to be torn open for sure and I'd love to keep the OG delco part BUT... I'd like even more to just bolt on a new/refurb part and worry about it later. Any leads? I work at a shop here in Austin, Tx so I've got a couple avenues to search.

    The wiring is also a mess, but... most, if not all of it, is getting replaced when I convert over to 12v. This car had a field rat problem for sure.

    Also- side question, is my keyed ignition switch supposed to turn? It has zero side to side play. I'll probably just wire in a cheap universal switch for now.
     
  2. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,766

    belair
    Member

    Sounds like the soleniod is bad. Got good ground and positive connections? Take the starter off and check it out. Could also be seized up if it has been sitting out a long time.Yes, the key should turn to the right (my original 48 turned to the left, tho) for run and start-unless there is a floor starter ( i don't know when Chevy moved it), in which case it will only go one position over to run and you mash the floor button to start it.
     
  3. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,971

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    The starter you have is simple to repair if not toasted. Just open it up, clean everything, & turn the armature in your drill press. You then clean the mica between the segmented copper part. The solenoid is also easy to fix with a repair package still available from any real parts house.
    The ignition switch is 3 position - left at 10 o'clock is off & locked, noon is on, & 2 o'clock is off and is used for on/off when you don't have to worry about having the car stolen ... find a key that works so you don't butcher the dash trying to make some chinese crap fit .. borrow your buddy's Mason jar full of spare GM keys - the 5th or 6th one you try will work.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
    Atwater Mike likes this.
  4. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    Yeah I know I know. I'll probably end up rebuilding it, its just that the car is currently 45 minutes from my garage... and will be for another two weeks. Was hoping to avoid the back and forth. Was kind of surprised I couldnt find much info on replacements.

    Also I guess my switch is crapped out :/
     

  5. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 30,049

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    First off can you turn the engine over by hand? If it has been sitting that long it may be stuck and the starter can't turn it.

    Plenty of places sell replacement starters and you should be able to find one for 12 V if you are going to 12 V with the stock 216 but you can also pull the starter and pull it apart and see what it needs or take it to a local starter, generator, alternator shop in Austin. Someone from there will have to suggest one though.
    One thing, on that one I wouldn't be spending a lot of money until I knew exactly what I was working with. You don't want to end up spending it twice with pieces that you bought that you now can't use.
     
  6. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    It's a 235 with a powerglide, as I understand it, there werent 12v options until late 1954/55... and even still, the flywheels were different? The vehicle isnt in Austin, and currently I can only get to it on the sundays (because of work schedule), so I was hoping to just buy a new starter and bolt it up. Guess I'll just pull it apart.
     
  7. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    It has the adorable tiny push button starter switch on the dash.
     
  8. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,766

    belair
    Member

    Then the ignition will only turn one "click", to the "run" position. All that does is turn the ignition system on. I don't know if it will have to be turned clock wise or counter-clockwise. The starter button is ALWAYS hot, (in my limited experience), so if you push it with or without the key turned on , it will engage the starter and if the car is in gear, it will move.
     
  9. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    Well, atleast I know what it SHOULD be doing... which is "more than nothing". Alright, time to order me a cheapo switch.
     
  10. ol-nobull
    Joined: Oct 16, 2013
    Posts: 1,652

    ol-nobull
    Member

    Hi. If all else fails or if you just do not want to work on it Oriley's can get you a replacement overnight if you order before 5 PM. I just bought one from them for my foot operated starter (no solenoid) for the 235 in my 46 coupe that I still run with the 46 starter - 6 volt starter running on 12 volts. Just do not tell them you are running on 12 Volts. It (the original 46 starter) has been on 12 volts for several years and finally failed. But buying a new starter will not fix your problem if your problem is either bad solenoid or bad connections. You need to check these out FIRST or you may be wasting a bunch of bucks.
    Jimmie
     
  11. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    Whats the part number for yours? I cant find anything from them aside from bwd brushes.
     
  12. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

  13. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,828

    squirrel
    Member

    he said his is a different starter, the one with the foot pedal switch. This type was used on trucks, long after they went to pushbutton/key switch on cars.
     
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,828

    squirrel
    Member

    You might want to start a thread called "where can I get an old starter rebuilt in Austin" and there are probably some folks who could help you out.
     
  15. You can buy that starter rebuilt from NAPA or Autozone. Or you can get the parts to rebuild it, as long as the fields are not cracked and the armature is not shorted out ( seldom happens to a 6V GM) it is a matter of bushings brushes and a solenoid. Easy peezy.

    You may try rapping the starter with a ball peen. Lost of times the bushing go bad and the armature lays against the fields, a sharp rap will make it work and then you'll know that it is the bushings without ever taking it apart.
     
  16. In all the replys here and no one asked ...Maybe just a DEAD Battery???
     
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  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,828

    squirrel
    Member

    or even dirty battery terminals
     
  18. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    Nope. All the normal stuff checked out. Also, I took a shop battery with 800 cranking amps just for this job, lol.
     
  19. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    I cant seem to find it on their shop order sites, which usually have more selection than what the normal site shows... I just wanted a number to go off of since asking the counter guys over the phone is A FUN TIME.
     
  20. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,828

    squirrel
    Member

    Suggestion to everyone who says "you can get that starter at _____". How about a link to the web page that shows the mysterious starter, so someone else can find it, too?

    Chevs of the 40s has one listed, there are probably a few other specialty places that sell them, as well. It will probably cost you over three bills to get them to send it to you. I'd be looking at figuring out what's wrong with the one you have. Or getting it rebuilt locally, during the week, and plan on making two trips to the car to get it done.

    https://www.chevsofthe40s.com/detai...r_Passenger_DublDuti_Duty_Truck_100_Core.html
     
  21. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    Exactly! But knowing that there arent gonna be cheap replacements for this does push me to just rebuilding the damn thing.
     
  22. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    Heads up for future people who find this post. Assuming everything is original under my hood, what I'm seeing online as far as available replacement parts... does not match what I have. The only locally sourced parts I can find are brushes(BWD X265) and a starter solenoid(MPI 2SS2), and cross referencing that was a pain as every place has the 4 bolt solenoid listed as correct.

    I also don't see rebuilt starters in stock at any local parts houses like oreilly/napa/advance/autozone (or worldpac). So if you dont have a rebuilder in your area, and dont want to go the ebay route- Wilson offers a replacement that matches what I have exactly. Oreilly and Napa can get Wilson(BBB) parts on special order.

    http://www.wilsonautoelectric.com/PartDetails/Index?partId=6b14a0c9-b8d0-4699-9761-45270fe7059f
     
  23. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,828

    squirrel
    Member

  24. jcmarz
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 4,633

    jcmarz
    Member
    from Chino, Ca

    If it's the original motor, then it's the splash oiler 235, which is the same as a 216. Full pressure 235s came out in 1954. And 12v was first offered on the 1955 Chevrolets.

    Sent from my SM-J700T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  25. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    To elaborate- the car is not 12v. Maybe previous owner started 30 years ago... and never finished. But it's still got 6v stuff on there.
     
  26. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,828

    squirrel
    Member

    The important thing is the flywheel, if it has fine teeth, then the starter has to be the 12v model. If it has coarse teeth, then it needs the 6v starter.

    We'd need some pictures to help you figure out what you have.
     
  27. G .
    Joined: Nov 3, 2017
    Posts: 88

    G .
    Member
    from Austin

    Wont have much in the way of underside photos until I get it back to my house- but, I did take some pictures of the casting number when I first bought it- and forgot to look them up.
     

    Attached Files:

  28. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,828

    squirrel
    Member

    That's a 235 head, from the later 6v era. Wonder what the block is?

    While you have the starter out, did you look at the flywheel teeth?
     
  29. ol-nobull
    Joined: Oct 16, 2013
    Posts: 1,652

    ol-nobull
    Member

    Hi. My starter is different from what you need as mine uses the foot operated switch. Starter looks like it has a switch similar to floor mounted dimmer switch mounted on the top and foot linkage operates it.
    My receipt for it is in car and is a 50 mile round trip away but the box has the Wilson (made in Mexico) part # of
    91-01-3646. It is in their special order section in O Riley stores.
    The starter you need will be that same starter body but with solenoid linkage instead of foot switch.
    Jimmie
     
    G . likes this.
  30. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,828

    squirrel
    Member

    uh...he told us already that the starter he needs is the later 12v version.
     
    G . likes this.

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