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Projects 1951 Chevy 3600 , even more Qs, fresh 235 has bad bearings.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Baumi, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. When I got my 1951 3100 I converted it to open drive and mated a Camaro T5 transmission to the 235 that was already in it. That was a pretty straight forward procedure. Also updated to a dual reservoir brake master cylinder. I have a project thread here on the hamb that might be of some interest to you.
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/51-chevy-3100-project.672888/
     
    Baumi likes this.
  2. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    I complain how hard it is to find decent parts in Northeast USA, I cannot imagine what you
    overseas rodders go thru. Hats off to you. I also am doing a 3600.
     
    Baumi likes this.
  3. So you have a pretty heavy duty truck there. Any of my old 8-lug trucks were open drive and I just put up with the 4.56 or 5.38 rears. I helped convert an old 3100 (1949 or 1950) 6-lug truck to open drive using a newer rear our of a Chevy Suburban. Made up new spring perches and it looked factory when done.
     
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  4. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So I finally went to pick up the 51 3600 last Sunday. It was a well over 1200 kms roundtrip, but my friend Tom @TomFranzi was riding shotgun and we had a great time benchracing about his roadster and whatever. We were picking up car parts for Tom and a friend on the way, so we met a few cool car guys on our way.
    So, now the truck is home! It´s pretty solid. Th only major rust is in the driver´s side floor pan. A few cracks in the fenders and alot of dents, but I really wish Dani´s Suburban would have been that solid! I couldn´t be happier! STIO3036.jpg DJNV2407.jpg CDAH2485.jpg
     
  5. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  6. Congratulations on getting your new truck home! How did that BMW do with the trailer? Please keep us posted on your progress!


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  7. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Andy,Thank you! Well, it did pretty well!:) The "beater" beamer is my girlfriend´s and I borrow it whenever I need to tow something. It´s a 3 liter turbo diesel with a GM 5L40E transmission, but I doubt these have been sold in the US as Diesels. It´s got 193 HP and a little over 300 ft/lbs @ 1700 rpm. I set the cruise control at 72 mph which was fine. ( The " official" speed limit for towing is 50mph).:D We had to load the truck backwards because it has no engine in it and all the parts were in the bed. All of that did not help the airflow which was pretty noticeable over 75mph. It was pretty hot and humid that day and I was impressed that old beamer with more than 200 k miles on the clock didn´t break a sweat nor burn a drop of oil. I towed a 64 Electra 225 a few years ago , and while it was heavier than this truck it wasn´t fighting the wind as much...
     
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  8. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    BTW, me and Tom were actually discussing if it wouldn´t make sense and be fun to put such a diesel drivetrain in an old truck like the 3600. Parts cars can be had for a could hundred bucks around here. Better ones for a grand. But we finally agreed that a stovebolt 6 was the way to go... it just would feel wrong to put a modern drivetrain in there.
     
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  9. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    Stock would have been a 216 six splash oiler , later 235 six is almost a bolt in and oil pressure pump.
    there are many swap kits for the chevy v8s also, the front frame is virtually the same as the 1/2 ton.
    The rear end is already open but at least 4:56 gears and it still has Huck brakes. There are little to no
    replacement drums for 3/4 ton Hucks. Replacement linings and wheel cylinders are expensive but available as is the master cyl. Body parts are the same as 1/2 ton except for bed sides. I had good luck with ClassicParts.com patch panels. I do not know of any brake swaps for the 3/4 ton spindles except
    the 54 to? bendix brakes on 3/4 ton trucks., or swap out the front axle for a 1/2 ton one and you can get
    many disc brake kits. Springs are the same 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton (fronts). In Germany you might want to
    look into the Jaguar independent front end/rear end swap.
     
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  10. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,200

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    Nobody's mentioned the front motor mount yet. The '62 plate behind the timing gear has no provision for a mount, so you'll need to pull the pan, and replace it with a 216 or 235 front plate with mount. You'll know immediately if it's fresh. Replacement rubber cushions or complete mounts are available.
    As far as the water pump, I find it much more satisfying to shorten the '55 up pump. We use a Falcon pulley, and press the flange further down the shaft until the pulleys align, then whack off the extra. No $$ spent, no new holes in anything, no double gasket crap, no hassle.
     
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  11. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,437

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    My family had a 51 3/4 ton on the vacation property and would like to find another,this time it would get the 261 and 3 speed o/d trans I have in stock.
     
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  12. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I started working on the body and did some investigating on the truck. I found my truck has 17" split rims that use a retaining ring. I´m not sure sfae or unsafe these are after all those years... What do you think?
     
  13. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And I did acutally make some progress... I rearanged the shop to free up some space for the cab. Moved the 34 Plymouth with our 1954 Eicher 11 hp tractor. That tiny guy is pretty practical. Also pulled the front clip and the cab from the chassis and moved it into the shop so I could start working on the caved in cowl side / twisted a pillar situation. I managed to get the crease out pretty well, but once it was back in shape the metal was strechted so much it had a bubble to the outside- a cowl side repair panel came with the truck, and the bottom of the a pillar was rusty anyway, so I replaced it- the last dent on the top will be pulled out from the outside, because I had no way to reach behind that area.
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
    RMR&C likes this.
  14. Baumi, please don’t even consider using those split ring wheels. Around here they are known as Widowmakers. There is not a tire shop around me that will work on them and I live out in the country where they were prevalent. Just get some one piece eight lug wheels, the bolt pattern hasn’t changed.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  15. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Alright... that sounds pretty scary..Thanks for your advice , Andy!
     
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  16. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    The bolt pattern has not changed but be careful of backspace, the tie rods are pretty close to the wheel.
     
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  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,492

    squirrel
    Member

    The wheels with a retaining ring aren't too bad, but you do need to pay attention to how they go together properly, and inflate them in a cage in case they are not seated.

    The real widowmakers are the wheels that separate in half. They've been known to come apart when they're in use, I think. Firestone RH-5. Look it up.
     
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  18. I like the 3-piece wheels myself, the 2-piece ones are tricky to get the outer ring portion to seat when you air them up. Everything has got to be clean and not bent. Put the pieces together with no tire so you get an idea how they should look. Any truck tire truck I worked with had a safety cage... but few used them. We would air them up under the back step bumper instead.
     
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  19. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Woah, I guess I´m gonna spare myself from this shot of adrenalin . I don´t have a cage nor a death wish or any experience with split rims:D and I´d like to become 98 like my grandma.... I´ll better be looking for a set of 1 piece wheels.
     
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  20. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here´s a little update on the progress I made. Spent a few hot summer nights in the shop , had a few cold ones, put in a new floor pan, fixed a couple small holes in the cab corners, other than that the cab is all solid now. So far the good news!
    BTW . You can tell how shallow the ceiling in my shop is... it doesn´t get anymore unpractical than that but I like the old barn feeling in there...

    image3.jpeg image6.jpeg image7.jpeg image8.jpeg image9.jpeg image10.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
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  21. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The freshly rebuilt 235 was cheap and supposed to have a little tick, like a stuck lifter...I pulled the pan and learned that all rod bearings are burnt and smashed to death. You can actually wiggle them maybe 1/8" up and down. The bearings are .040 undersize, so my best guess is, the rod journals had been machined smaller than that. I have not done any accurate measurements yet, I just wanted to have a look and make a plan from there. The camshaft, lifters, pistons and bores look great though. I saw that sealed power 61950CP rod bearings are available up to .050 undersize, but I think I´d better find another crank and maybe a set of rods. They certainly took a god beating , pounding out those bearings, hahaha I´ll finish the body first and fix the 235 next. FDIX1686.jpg UMZA8584.jpg QCHW8375.jpg
     
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  22. I liked the days when parts stores stocked exchange cranks or could have one in a few days time. But they are plentiful for a 235 so you should be able to get a good one. Even a good core would be a step in the right direction.
     
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  23. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes, Bob, I agree. I´m still glad I have this fresh block ,with a good cam,new pistons and rebuilt head. I spent 300 bucks and I couldn´t have had a block bored, honed and a head rebuilt for that over here. I have yet to see how well it was built though... I hope the rod bearings were the only messup:rolleyes::D
     
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  24. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,200

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    Here's a couple suggestions - find another set of rods, all from the same engine, and not damaged. And make certain it didn't spin a main bearing ... that engine needs to be torn completely apart to remove all the metal particles, down to and including the cam bearings.
    I hope the cylinder head wasn't done by the same person responsible for the bottom end.
     
  25. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes,you are right and that´s the plan, tear the engine completly down and measure everything to see what is going on. There went so much debris throw the oil gallery that the mains are also worn out. not as bad as the rod bearings but still copper shining through. Cam bearings may need to be replaced aswell. Then clean everything and start over.
     
  26. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    PS: Main bearings are still all in place and they have not spun, so that´s good news.
     
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  27. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,200

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    By all means, replace the cam bearings ! They have to be out to clean those oil passages, & going by the shape of the lower end, may never have been replaced. Does it have aluminum or fiber timing gear ?
    I wish you lived across town from here .... you could drive that '56 over & we'd load your trunk ...
    You aren't going to like it when I tell you the cylinder head needs to be checked by someone who knows valve work.
     
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  28. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Haha,thanks for the offer, that would be great!! But first we´d have to teach my 56 how to swim, hahaha
    As far as I´ve checked, that 235 does have aluminum timing gears, a new cam, new .030 over pistons, it does not have any varnish or sludge in it, so I´m positive it has really been rebuilt not to long ago. I was told has been broken in on a stand until it started knocking .There is so much debris in the engine that I´m sure every single gallery and every surface will have to be cleaned, brushed , pressure washed and all of that again and again...
     
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  29. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,490

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I´m having a hard time finding a usable crankshaft and rods over here. The last resort would be to have my rods resized and the journals welded and turned, but that would certainly knock this engine out of my ballpark budgetwise. So if any of you European Hambers have any leads on a useable crankshaft that fits a ´62 235 please stand up:D I also have a friend that regularly has containers shipped from Raleigh, NC . That could be another option.
    I´m done repairing rust on the cab, the dash will need some more attention because someone hacked it up and put a 62 Chrysler radio in there. I actually like that radio and may use it for something later.
     

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