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Projects 1951 Chevy 3600 , even more Qs, fresh 235 has bad bearings.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Baumi, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,494

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It seems like I did "it" again and although I have run out of space a long time ago I got myself another project- A pretty solid sun burnt but unmolested 51 Chevy truck with a cracked 216ci stovebolt. I was thinking about replacing the 216 with a 235 ( which I don´t have yet) or a 283 ( which I have a couple of), keep the stock transmission ( maybe replace it with a 3 speed OD out of a 55 Chevy 210 that I also have) and maybe put more highway friendly gears in the rearend... Before I start making guessitmates I would like to learn from you guys abou the ins and outs of the AD trucks....what gear ratio a 3100 came with from the factory for example. I think maybe 4.11-5.13 would be in the ballpark, right?
    Did the AD trucks have an open drivetrain or the same torque tube setup as the pass cars?
    I have an early 60s 283 from a stick shift car ( along with flywheel/ clutch/ bellhousing /etc) , would that setup be likely to bolt up to the stock 51 3 speed box?
    If it turned out to be a torque tube setup I´d probably think about swapping in another rearend , replacing the closed drive trans with the 3 speed OD I have and go with the 283, unless I can find a reasonably priced 235 that does not need a ton of work. The truck wont be lowered, it will mostly remain what it is, an old solid but well worn work truck with a little highway friendlier habits.
    What would be your approach?
     
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  2. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,494

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I know, this thread is worthless without pichers...
    Sorry I can't provide a total view but the seller only sent me tons of detail shots. Dr side floor pan needs to be replaced , but the repair panels are already there.
     

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  3. VANDENPLAS
    Joined: Dec 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,472

    VANDENPLAS
    Member

    A 261 or 235 is a bolt in

    a sbc goes in easy with some custom mounts and a cross member

    issue with the tranny is it will have very low gearing and not keep up with hwy traffic.

    it’s an open driveline
    lots of options for diffs that fit
    Someone who know more will chime in with that info.


    You can go to the next gen in-line 6 292 etc modern transmission will bolt right up
    A 235/261 if you go auto will need an adapter which are available
    55 and later manual bell will allow you to bolt up a modern stick trans
     
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  4. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,560

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    A 51 3100 would still be a torque tube, they went to an open rear in 54/55. There is a social group here
    devoted to AD trucks, not real active lately but there is a ton of info there. If you swap the motor to a 235
    the water pump needs modification, otherwise basically a bolt in. V8 id a little more involved, basically the steering box is in the way for almost any exhaust manifold. The original motor is supported by the
    bellhousing, when you put in a v8 you lose that support and often end up with a sag in the frame unless
    you box the frame. None of this is something to stop you, there are thousands of these trucks with v8's,
    but be aware it is a little more work than the six swap. The stock rear is on the 4.11 range, there are aftermarket gears at 3.54.
     
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  5. Swapping to a 235 would definitely be the easiest swap, but as mentioned, many have also swapped to a sbc. There are several rearends that work and there was actually one year of the AD's with an open driveline which was the first series 55. However, since those are somewhat rare, most use other rearends. I am using one from a first generation Camaro in my son's 51 that we are currently building and it will have a 3-speed transmission and a 283. The original rearend width is 60.5" from wheel mounting face to mounting face if I remember right and there are several rearends that are close enough to that. I plan to use a bellhousing for the transmission that will bolt to the original mid-mount and then figuring out how to mount the 283 either off the front mounts or possibly the side mounts. As far as mounting the engine, there have been a few recent threads with questions including one I posted.

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/sbc-in-an-ad-pickup-questions.1193180/#post-13572619
     
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  6. I have a 100% stock 1950 3100. The driveline in definitely a torque tube. The rear axle ratio is a 4.11. You are lucky you scored a 51, that’s the first year for the Bendix self energizing brakes. They are so much better than my Huck brakes. Your example looks very nice. One of these days, I’m going to build a V8 powered version to go with my stock one. I’m subscribed to your build.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  7. ...you have a 3600,...3/4 ton truck, it would be open drive with 2 driveshafts and carrier bearing in between.,..most likely a 4 speed truck trans with granny first gear.
    good luck with your project, lots of ways to go.
     
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  8. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 5,934

    anthony myrick
    Member

    the plans for mine is a late 235, s10 5 speed and a rear end with 355 ish gears
    updated master cyl in the stock floor location and a disc conversion on the front
    keep the stock axle but have it dropped
    is ya want to do the 283, thats a great choice. locate an iron V8 bell from a mid 50s to late 60s truck
    if you want to keep the 6 lug, mine had a rear from an early 60s gm truck when I got it
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
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  9. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,505

    squirrel
    Member

    Thread title says 3100, rusty1 says 3600, I can't see enough to be able to tell what it is.

    Does it have 6 or 8 lug wheels?

    3 speed column or 4 speed floor shift?

    The answers to these questions make a difference in my suggestions.
     
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  10. Good point Squirrel... I am seeing at least a 3200 with the longer bed as shown in one pic.
     
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  11. badshifter
    Joined: Apr 28, 2006
    Posts: 3,195

    badshifter
    Member

    IMG_2741.JPG
    Looks like floor shift. The picture through the windshield shows no column shift and you can see the knob from the floor shifter.
     
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  12. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,560

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    The pocket in front of the fender would indicate it is a 3600. 3/4 ton truck. It will still have huck brakes.
    Swap details will be mostly the same, Rear end from factory will be 4:56, or optional 5:11 or so. The frame is slightly heavier material, and the frame is almost straight behind the cab with very little hump over the axle. 1/2 tons have a spread behind the cab, and a larger hump. The 3/4 ton has a heavier axle
    and spindle than the 1/2 tons, 1/2 ton brake kits will not fit. The axles interchange if you want to use
    the 1/2 ton brake kits, they use the same front springs. Body is the same other than bed sides and running boards. Engine and trans were the same, they changed the driveshaft at the carrier to use the open rear end. There are reports of some later rear pumpkins fitting the original rear end, but the
    suggested rear ends are pretty rare, and you would still have the huck brakes. Huck brakes can work ok,
    but replacement drums are rare, expensive if found, and need constant adjustment.
     
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  13. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,494

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wow, guys, you are great! Thanks for all the replies and opinions. It could very well be a 3200 or 3600. I thought it was a 3100. But I´m still learning about the AD trucks. My girlfriend Dani´s 52 Suburban was already clipped and almost FUBAR´ed when we got it, so I have no clue about what the stock AD trucks are about.
    I´m thinking the axles are looking heavier than they would on a 3100 and it does have a floor shifter. There are plenty of wheel studs , that´s for sure, hahahaha
    SYIU0048.jpg WROA9552.jpg JEDB0146.jpg
     
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  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,505

    squirrel
    Member

    Can't see lug nuts, but we can we the full floating rear hub. 3600, 3/4 ton.

    Sent from my Trimline
     
  15. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,262

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    Your best bet.....
    Find a 235 or even another 216 or repair the crack.
    Fix stuff like wiring, brake lines, wheel cylinders and.....that kind of stuff. ( It’s recommended by Early AD truck guys, not to turn Huck Brake drums)

    Get it going and drive it as is.
     
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  16. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,494

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for all your replies and input!
    F-One, that´s exactly what my plan is. Problem is, inline 6s are not that common around here and will require some patience.
    Jim,the axles would probably have 8 lug hubs on a 3/4 ton, right?
    I didn´t have a lot of chances to go out lately and just called a few friends if they come with me to get the truck on one of the upcoming weekends. It´ll be a fun roadtrip with a few buddies to go and pick up this truck . I will keep you updated!
     
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  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,505

    squirrel
    Member

    Get it home and get to know it. Then spend some time reading up on old trucks, you should find plenty of info here on them.

    We're a lot better at answering questions when you have all the correct information included in your question :)

    Yes, 8 lugs are 3/4 ton. 6 lugs are half ton.
     
  18. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,262

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    Baumi,

    Maybe you can repair the 216.

    It depends on where the crack is on that engine. Outside cracks can be studded, welded or epoxied.

    Studding is drilling each side of the crack and tapping (threading) small studs. After the stud is installed, it’s drilled off center for the next stud. The hole is threaded and the studs overlap each other. This takes a great deal of precision.

    Welding....
    Each end of the crack is drilled to stop the crack from spreading.
    There’s lots of opinions about whether the cast iron block should be heated before welding or what manner of welding is best. Some say arc welding, some say Mig and others say Tig is the way to go.
    The most common method for cast iron is...
    Nickel rods Arc welded on uniformly heated cast iron.

    Epoxy....

    This may be a option for you. It would only work on cooler areas of the engine like the side of the block. I think it’s a good idea to drill each end of the crack. Clean up the block and make sure no oil or water is in the crack. It’s best that the water jackets be drained.
    I’ll probably get kicked off the HAMB for saying this, but regular JB Weld is what I would use. You can smooth it, let it cure grind or file it to give the surface some tooth. Then you can apply another layer with a larger foot print.
    For a semi-permanent repair, sometimes this works.

    Finding a Engine.....

    The WC or Deuce and Quarter, 2 1/4 ton US Army trucks were in Europe by the thousands. They continued to be used during the early NATO years.

    The engines out of these GM made US Army Trucks are compatible with your truck.
     
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  19. MO54Frank
    Joined: Apr 1, 2019
    Posts: 304

    MO54Frank
    Member

    1955-2nd Series was the first year for 3200s — 1/2 ton long bed. Yours is a 3600 3/4 ton. At that time 3-speed trans were standard equipment in 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton. 4-speed optional in either.
    235/ 261 as well as 230/ 250/ 292 later sixes and SBC have all been swapped into AD Chevy trucks.
     
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  20. Baumi, I’m getting ready to move a 1946 216 tomorrow that a deceased friend of mine gave me. It’s been sitting in the same place in my shop since it came home 17 years ago. He was going to scrap it but I grabbed it for parts for my 1950 3100. I looked up your location and was going to offer it to you, but I see that you are from The Fatherland. I’m from German ancestry myself. Please keep us informed on what you find. It’s always so cool to be able to talk to other Hot Rodders from other countries.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  21. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,494

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Jim, you are right of course... But I guess you know the feeling, you just bought something sight unseen, have only seen a few promising photos and the build process in your head is at full tilt, hahaha. Thanks for bearing with me. I promise to calm myself down, hahaha:D
     
  22. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,494

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thank you F-One! These are a lot of possibilities and I´m all in when it comes down to repairing something vs. replacing it. In my teen years I sucessfully fixed a couple of "windowed" Vespa engine cases using JB weld ( I was poor and a hack) , but they held up as long as I had them. An old friend called me yesterday and tolld me if I´d be interested in his 235. He is a Ford guy and has no use for it. It´s supposed to have a bad rod bearing but he said the crank looked fine. It also has the 848 head, which is one of the better ones for a 235 I think...
    Never thought about the Army trucks! You´re right, there still ought to be some around!
    Thanks alot for all your input!
     
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  23. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,494

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hey Andy! That´s way cool! Where in Germany did your family come from? I´m located in southern Bavaria. I can see the Alps on a clear day.
    I appreciate your offer, thanks a lot! But I guess it would take quite a few stamps and a large envelope to get your 216 here, hahaha.
    We´ll have a little gathering at a friends place next weekend east of Nuremberg. Now meetings up to 100 people in open space are allowed again and it seems ( I hope) the worst part is over. This will probably be one of the few old car related things to happen this year, I can post some photos of what´s going on if you´re interested.
     
  24. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,652

    Budget36
    Member

    Couple of things to think about, I don't think there are any narrow enough modern rear ends in 8 lug for you to get a better ratio, so you'd carry two spares, or look to convert the front to 5 lug and a matching bolt pattern for the rear you use. I'm unsure of the spindle differences (if any) between your truck and a 3100 of the same vintage.

    Part over here would be locatable for an entire front end assembly in 1/2 ton, would be 6 lug, but most likely there's an aftermarket disc kit that makes it 5 lug.

    Depending on how low the ratio is now, even an OD tranny may not suit your needs, but would keep what ever is powering it happier at 60-ish.
     
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  25. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,505

    squirrel
    Member

    You might also consider just leaving it as an old truck that can't drive very fast :)

    That 235 you have a lead on sounds like a good thing to look into.
     
  26. I would love pictures of that! Very cool. I just talked to my Dad and he thinks it was Bavaria, but he is not sure of the exact area.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  27. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,532

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What hasn't been said is a significant part of the V8 swap is clearing in the steering box.
    There are many threads on the forum here and in the AD social group about working with these trucks. View as many of them as you can find

    Sent from my SM-G965U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  28. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,494

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here´s an update! A friend of mine offered me his 235. I guess it is a 62 passenger car engine, it has a 716 block and 848 heads . It has been run on a stand recently and a preowner stated it had been rebuilt but never been put in a car again. Sounds too good to be true,( and probably is) but at 300€ I can´t go wrong I suppose.
    I also promised Andy to share some photos of a little gathering we had in my friends Flocki´s backyard last Saturday! It was small and very familiar but it just felt sooo good to see all the people again after a long while.
    Dani and I took the 40 out and my friend Manuel was following me in his 62 Impala
    FWWZ8551.jpg SSCR4798.jpg BBSV4758.jpg CCYE6797.jpg
    Flocki is just bringing the 34 back into shape... It´s got a french flatty but he is still on the fence DGTV2893.jpg
    A lot of free road ahead, because the traffic jam was right behind me on the Autobahn hahaha IMG_4799.JPG
    As usual it didn´t take long until Dani fell asleep in the passenger seat. She loves old cars. And she will kill me if she finds out I made a photo, so don´t tell her!
    IMG_4801.JPG
    A beautiful 41 Plymouth Coupe FOGY9274.jpg KEVO8907.jpg IMG_4807.JPG IMG_4809.JPG
    I parked next to a 36 Dodge Coupe IMG_4812.JPG IMG_4813.JPG
    just to keep a little OT about old trucks: René´sold Ford is not made for the Autobahn , just like my 3600 JMIE1573.jpg
    2 cool roadsters, the 36 was extremely nice IMG_4831.JPG IMG_4823.JPG IMG_4824.JPG IMG_4825.JPG IMG_4826.JPG
    Everybody was a little hung over the next morning, but the party was well worth it!
     

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  29. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,440

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    If you use the 62 235 you will have to do something with the water pump since it sits lower and is much longer then the original,a adapter is made so a 37 to 54 water pump can be used on a 55 to 62 engine. I have used two of those adapters and here is a picture of one on a 60 235 with a 54 pump. 100_9881.JPG
     
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  30. Very cool pictures! Looks like quite a great party. You guys have a great happening car scene!


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