Technical 1950 or 51 "sports car"...what engine?

Let's say you were starting a small "boutique" car manufacturing company in the late 40s. You were awestruck by the first production Ferraris, and wanted to build something similar to take them on head to head...kinda like Ford did in the mid 60s.

What engine that was available at the time...figure 1951...would be the best choice for a fast 2 seat "european type" sports car? In my mind, it wouldn't be a flathead...

 

Olds, Caddy. The baby nail didn't come along for another couple of years.

In the mid to late '50s there were some nailhead powered american sports cars that did compete on the roadrace circuite.

 

Wasn't an Allard that had a Cadillac engine in a 2 seat sports car?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cad-Allard

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yff80c&va=cad+allard

 

Briggs Cunningham thought the Hemi was the way to go, back then.

 

Yeah, but in 1950, he had the Le Monstre Caddy

 

Seems to me with the other limitations you have imposed...Olds, Caddy and Chrysler Hemi are the only choices. The hemi is only marginally heavier than the Cad/Olds and breathed better..........that's where I would be looking.

 

Available where? Donald Healey was faced with this problem. He chose the Riley 2 1/2 liter 4 cylinder because it had a hemi head (with pushrods). It allowed him to make the only stock car on the market with a top speed of 100MPH.

For the American market he wanted Cadillac V8s but Cadillac would not sell them to him. So he used Nash OHV sixes, because he happened to meet George Mason, president of Nash, on the ship he came to the US on and Mason offered to support the project. The result was the Nash Healey. Even though it was no Cadillac, the Nash engine was good enough to finish in the money at LeMans.

In the US, the default choice was the Ford flathead. Cartoonist Charles Addams used one in a prewar sports car that resembled a Mercedes 540K. Allard used them at first, later switching to Cad V8s. The TASCO project by noted designer Gordon Buehrig used a flathead Mercury V8. Earl "mad man" Muntz used OHV Cadillac and flathead Lincoln V8s in his Muntz Jets. This was an expensive car but cost and availability must have had something to do with his choice.

When the Studebaker OHV V8 debuted in 1951 several sports car experts figured it would make an excellent power plant. At least 2 sports cars were proposed but I don't think either of them was built.

Brooks Stevens was a sports car buff as well as a car designer. His choice was the Willys F head six. He did work for the Willys company as a designer but the sports car was a side project of his own. When he proposed to hop up the engine and rev it to 5000 RPMs company engineers predicted he would blow the engine but it worked fine.

As you can see, various cars used various engines for various reasons. Too bad nobody made the Studebaker powered sports car though.

 

Good point, Rusty. I was thinking American production car engines...as in something I could still get ahold of today.

Nothing against the flathead, it obviously has it's place in hot rod and racing history. I'm thinking a little more "high tech" for that era, I guess....

 

My first thought was Jag DOHC 6. They were killer in that era. Now you say US Mfg. and I'm thinking that it wasn't too many years after `51 that Chevy put the Blue Flame 6 in the Corvette.

 

You didn't give us much to go on. This post narrows it down a bit.

I take it you want to build a sports car, as it might have been built in 1951, as a prototype for a hand made or low production car?

You might want to look into the early fibreglass sports cars like Woodhill Wildfire, Stevens' Excalibur, Glasspar, etc.

Unfinished or derelict early fibreglass cars turn up from time to time.

 

As mentioned above, Allard favored o.h.v. Cads and Chrysler hemis, but started with hopped up flatheads, some with Ardun overhead valve conversions. All good choices for the time, depending on availability and cost.

 

Cadillac V8, Ford flathead V8. Possibly the Ford OHV 6 that debuted in 1952. It was considered a hot performer at the time, some experts thought it had more potential than the V8.

Chrysler hemi, very powerful but very heavy. The smaller DeSoto Firedome of 1952, a honey of an engine, smaller and lighter than the Chrysler. Or the 53 Dodge Red Ram, even smaller, very powerful for its size.

Olds V8 had a lot of support in hot rod circles

Studebaker V8 already mentioned

Nash 7 main bearing OHV six as used in Nash Healey

The rest of the industry was dominated by flathead sixes and straight eights, not usually considered hot powerplants although there were flathead Packard, Pontiac and others used in sports cars and hot rods.

 

You still haven't given us much to go on. Maybe the best thing to do would be to check out old junk yards, Craigslist, Kijiji etc and see what turns up.

I have been to police auctions and towing company impound auctions that had 1 or 2 beat up old cars from the 40s and 50s that went for scrap price but might have an engine you can use.

Also auction sales of farms or old time collectors. Most of those guys have spare engines stashed away, or parts cars sitting behind the garage and these usually go cheap.

For a U Bild It project a parts car is a gold mine. You get engine, trans, rear axle etc but you also get all the little bits you don't think of like shifter linkage, pedals, instruments, etc etc.

You might strip a car down to the chassis and build the body on it. This was a popular way of building a sports car back when.

 

Check out www.forgottenfiberglass.com for some ideas.

Glasspar G2 had an ardun flathead in it.

 

I was purposely sort of vague just to see what fertile ideas might pop up. I kind of like the idea of an OHV inline 6. Regardless of it's merits, IMO the Jag has been done to death over the years.

As appealing as the idea of a big straight 8 is, I would like to keep the physical package relatively small.

The overall silhouette of the car is already pretty well set. The dimensions will obviously depend on the engine to some extent.

 

Jimmy with a wayne head? Bring your chequebook...
Honestly, I know its not especially sophisticated, or original, but I'd be inclined to follow Ak Millers lead, and go with the olds. The Red Ram or Desoto would be good choices as well.

Theres a reason why a lot of guys stuck SBC's in Healys...

 

Apparently the ( 218?) Plymouth had a following...

 

There were many viable engine choices in 50-51 that would have worked well.

What transmission, brakes, and steering would you have chosen? Those were weak points on a lot of high performance cars of that period.

 

Anyone considering a 218 Plymouth would know about the big block Chrysler six and use one of them. For an honest answer to the original question, research Allard. He did it.

 

Hudson Twin H 308.

 

My WTF engine choice within the bounds of exwestracer's request might be the BMW/Bristol six. I think Maserati also did customer engines back then. Riley? Godalmighty, what the Brit vintage racers do to those things...

 

Or a Ranger...





Wouldn't be cheap, but it might not be as bad as you'd think.

There still are a couple that are squirreled away, and it wouldn't be that easy to get one of those recertified to use in an airplane.

 

Cunningham's original concept and first prototype was with the 331 Cadillac but GM backed out on supplying him motors and therefore he went with the 331 hemi.

 

In my mind, as warped as it is, I'm seeing something with a long hood and a straight Chevy 6 underneath it. Something like this.

 

I would lean towards one of the small V8s of the pre Chev era. Studebaker, DeSoto, Dodge. The only one on the market in 51 was the Studebaker.

Ford and Nash had the best OHV sixes. Chev still had partial oiling and babbit bearings, no good for high speed, and high speed in a Chev back then was over 50.

Then there was the Willys F head six, only 161 cu in and very hard to find today.

 

I'm leaning toward the Nash six, but I cant seem to get the Buick 8 off my radar screen... Maybe because I owned one years ago.

Looks like I may have found a patron for this build, so it's one step closer to reality.

I set an artificial roadblock for myself because I DON'T want to use a Hemi. I have a 392 sitting around, but again it's been done to death (for good reason!).

 

Oddly enough, I dont think this is the only road-race special from the era with a Mopar flathead six in it. Wouldn't be my first choice, but...

 

For my money, the Buick straight 8, cool as it is, is WAY too heavy for this deal, as well as too tall. Unless you are gonna tilt it on its side and run a dry sump?? The Hudson or Nash isnt a bad idea...

 

First off, what are you building? Cunningham's first choice for a 1950 le Mans car was a 50 Ford coupe with a cad motor, Fordillac. the car was rejected for entry.

 

In the late 30s Briggs Cunningham built a "special" by mounting a Mercedes SSK body on a 39 Buick chassis and calling it a Bumerc. This is the only sports car powered by a Buick straight eight, to my knowledge.

There were several small straight eights in the 250 cu in range. Hudson, Studebaker, and Pontiac come to mind. Pontiac was the last, it was made up to 1954.

Hudson was the basis of the Railton and Brough Superior, made in England in the 30s by putting a custom body on the Hudson chassis. Railton used the straight eight while Brough used the six cylinder model.

Hudson's 4.2L straight eight was unusually small and light for a straight eight, actually shorter than a Bentley 3.5L straight six.

Other straight eights like Buick Roadmaster, Packard and Chrysler were considerably larger

I'm not so sure about the Buick Special 248. It might not be too bad for overall size and weight although I am sure the Hudson is the smallest.