Technical 1950 Flathead 8BA Inital start trouble shoot

Need some help with the initial start on my 8BA .Trying to get it running after a refurbish. Running two 94's
1. Spark is present -checked it with a screwdriver on #1 plug and its showing on its correct turn around.
2. There is fuel pressure through the mechanical pump and the 94's are squirting ok. I had trouble getting the plugs wet however. Poured gas down the carbs, sprayed ether down the carbs, put some gas directly in the chambers through the spark plug holes with a syringe. and still having trouble getting them wet.
3.Spun it around several times and not even getting a chug. Starter and battery are new and strong.
4. Initially found TDC by lining up the dot with the pointer , used a bump starter to make sure i was on the compression stroke and air pushed out . Put the rotor to Number one.

Started to question if i have the right distributor and took some pictures. Even though getting spark looks like its not seated (see picture) The tag on dizzy has been cleaned away but the #620 is there. I also wonder of the offy heads are machined correctly to seat the distributor (see picture)
also wonder if the have the timing gear /crank and cam positioned correctly for timing from initial assembly. Its been along time since build. Can that even be screwed up? Would really appreciate some advice from folks who have or are currently good with the 8BA motor.

 

Did you refurbish it yourself ?
Tommy

 

yes its been in dry storage and assembly lube for about three years

 

Wonder if the dist. isn't seated fully and the drive gear is skipping. Might pull the cap and verify the rotor is rotating as it should while cranking. Bring number one piston up on compression again and check to see if the rotor has moved out of position.
Number one cylinder is the first cylinder on the right bank.

 

my guess is you have the rotor on number 1 on exhaust stroke , check for compression and see where the rotor is pointing, after that try cranking the engine and turning the dizzy in both directions ,flatheads will run even when they are way out so if no fire it probably on ex stroke

 

dist was spinning and throwing spark. Will do tdc again however. I am quite sure i aligned timing marks of cam and crank during assembly but was i supposed to do this while engine was at tdc?

 

id like to think it was that easy but i am not even getting a chug or a sputter which it should do even if out ? i will try this in the AM

 

Another check for you.....
Have you rebuilt the distributor?
If not verify your advance diaphragm is good and most definitely check your ground wire hidden underneath the weights. Many have frayed and shorted on those original distributors.

Don’t forget...
You need compression to get that engine started.
Just for shits and giggles give it a compression check.

 

Added new diaphragm when i did pertronix conversion and will check ground however as mentioned it is getting spark out to plugs

 

Question? I do understand that the crank and cam gears need to line up with the markings once both are installed but when you put the timing gear on the cam what insures that is in the correct orientation for the lobes?

 

The cam gear holes are not evenly spaced-the gear can only go on one way.

 

Just took another shot at it.
1. Inspected distributor and it is the one with the extend portion after the gear and looked down in the timing housing and it has the proper guide for that Distributor
2. Pulled #1 and #2 used a bump switch to find TDC where the air pushed my finger and pointer and dot lined up.
3. Dropped Dist. in the hole with rotor pointing to #1. made sure that rotor was turning in a clockwise direction. Checked spark on 1 and 2 both good.
4. Carbs are squirting ok and while 1 and 2 were out fuel was spitting from #2 during the timing rotation.
5. re checked the wire order on Dist. and all was the same and good.

I am not even getting a chug or sputter . It just keeps spinning around without any sign of an explosion. Suggestions?

 

Doesn't look like the distributor is seated right, there are two styles of front covers and they each take a different distributor. Since your doesn't look like it's all the way down look at the cover down near the center and if it has a notch it requires the long shaft distributor. I posted pictures of both types of covers and distributors. The distributor might not be seated right and jumping around.

 

^This

One method I like to use. Bring number one up on compression, align timing marks, turn ignition on, rotate dist. slightly one way then another and listen for spark inside dist. cap or pull number one wire and look for spark. Once you get spark try starting the engine and set timing.
Using this procedure will let you know if things are right with the ignition electrics and initial timing.
I still believe there may be an issue with the dist. not seating fully.

 

I think some are missing the point here. Spark is good. Gas not getting to the cylinders is not good.
I suspect something in the valve train. Do you have adjustable lifters? Are you sure they are set properly? Original non adjustable lifters require grinding the end of the valve stem for proper clearance. An extremely laborious and time consuming pain in the ass if you don't have the special tools for this.
Check the compression, throttles wide open, all plugs removed, at cranking speed. When you stuck your finger in a plug hole, could you hold it against the compression? It should blow it out with a resounding pop. Compression should be a very minimum of 100 pounds pressure. If it's low pour a 1/2 teaspoon of oil in each plug hole, spin the engine over for a minute and check again. If pressure rises you have a ring problem, not seated, etc. If no effect it's a valve problem or wrong head gasket, etc, letting the pressure escape. Compression works two ways. It also makes the vacuum on the down stroke that pulls the fuel into the cylinders. I would pull the intake manifold and check the valve clearances and check for stuck valves. Set - intake .011, exhaust .014 if memory serves. The lifter must be on the heel (low point) of the cam lobe when checking. Very important. Check the head bolt torque. 70 ft lbs should be about right for aluminum heads. Re- torque in proper sequence.
That's enough long winded advice from the old guy with a brain leak..
Let us know how you fare.

 

Good info above on the distributors and covers. On mine when it wouldn't start, wouldn't even fire, the cam and crank gears were not properly aligned. In fact one was on backward. I think it was the crank gear if I recall correctly. They need to both have their dot aligned with each other. Fixed that and she fired right up.

 

Gomez already crossed that bridge it has the dist with the longer shaft after the gear and the correct housing with the guide for it. I think Ok.

 

Glen unfortunately i think you may be correct and i have been in denial. No one really wants to rip them back apart

 

Tore into the timing cover.......lined up tdc and made sure pointer was close to pulley dot then pulled the timing cover off then saw that the slash in the cam timing gear and the dot in the crank gear were aligned. The pointer/dot and the slash/dot are both a little after which means they are aligned so strike that one off.

Really looks like things point towards valve adjustment? I mean does that vacum advance need to be hooked up to even get a sputter out of the engine??

 

No.

 

You dumped gas in the carbs and either then put gas directly into the cylinders with a syringe. Any chance you washed the cylinder walls down? They won't start really good if the cylinder walls are dry.

Just spit balling here.

 

I haven’t heard of compression reading yet. That would interest me!


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I can recall I had a dyslexic issue and ran the timing order counterclockwise by mistake.
Should be clockwise.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1lcx0CnB36ikvNPNzseHw_xG9El7_f8T4xA&s

 

I am not trying to be funny when I ask did you point the rotor to number one on the distributor cap and not at number 1 spark plug. It was a straight six I saw it on but I have seen that. Someone told him to point the rotor at number one and he pointed it at number one plug rather than number one terminal on the cap.

Still as Glen said: run a proper compression test as he laid out and find out if you have reasonable compression.

Going to a video on installing the ignition in a flathead distributor This yahoo makes it sound a bit too easy but shows me that the magnetic ring has a slot for each cylinder and doesn't have to be oriented on #1 As long as the sensor point on the pickup coil has the right gap between it and the ring.
Going to other info on Pertonix installation says that gap is critical but it seems that you have that covered as you have a decent spark.

Still if you are getting a spark at all and you have fuel and compression it should be trying to do something even if it is something you don't want it to do that. Backfire either out the carb or exhaust is the usual.

 

Going to do compression test today and also just for piece of mind going to try to find tdc as if the cam gear had no slash or dot. Yes i do understand the rotor pointing to number one wire and thats where its at. Firing order is set clockwise as in the last diagram. Will check optic position on module also for sure.

Also wanted to mention that rings were replaced and are new. Cylinders were not bored but honed.
Guides and seals were replaced. valves reseated with compound by hand, cam and lifters were not replaced. Everything dropped back in original holes and positions. Did not check valve seats as they are not adjustable and really nothing changed. That was an assumption i guess

 

Compression test results , done cold cause i cant get it started. Throttle open ,all plugs out
First group are dry. 2nd after oil squirt
DRY: 1-89,2-70,3-80,4-80,5-75,6-75,7-90,8-80
Oil squirt: 1-92.2-92,3-95,4-92,5-95,6-91,7-95,8-95
Rings were replaced, cylinders honed, valve guides and seals replaced , lifters and cam were not. Thoughts?

 

Mr 48 chevy......Correct me if i am wrong but there is no optic eye on a pertronix conversion for flathead 8BA ford?

 

Compression seems pretty low but I think it would fire on that. Valves are probably too tight.


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what is logic on valves too tight?

 

I would think you should be around 155-160 psi. Your valve seats likely need a regrind. Doesn’t seem like a quick fix. Before you pull the heads, get yourself a leak down tester. It will help you confirm where your compression is escaping.

I’ve been down this road with two flatheads, each time it was the valve seats. I’m in process of rebuilding one of them now.