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Hot Rods 1950 Chevy 3100 What's it worth?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by F1Jim64, Dec 23, 2016.

  1. '50 also has no vent windows and the driver's side cowl vent. '51 was the first year for the vent windows, and I believe the first year that side cowl vent went away.
    In Texas, the number on the title should match the number on the pad next to the distributor, though I imagine it's possible it was titled on the tag on the cab, or that the engine had been swapped and nothing matches.
     
  2. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Heli-coil repair inserts?
     
  3. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    OK- I'm a bit smarter now on plug type changes - According to the Adchevy.com website, the AC M8 plugs (10mm) were used in 48, but were changed in 49 (and 50) to the AC46-5 (14mm).
    So maybe I've got a 49 truck with a 48 engine? Or maybe this truck is really a 48???
    So I don't have oil fouling protectors - and I just need to find a compression/leak down tester adapter with a 10mm thread on it....
     
    DougB likes this.
  4. What shocks are on the truck, friction shocks or gas tube shocks?
     
  5. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    You can gut one of the plugs, and weld an air fitting of your choice onto that.
     
  6. Snagged this from the LMC catalog on their site.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    Looks like I need to buy a new China Freight compression tester for $25 - they have 10mm plug adapter.
    I think it has gas tube shocks but I will look again... Can the friction shocks be removed - and gas shocks put in their place - or are the mounts different? Gas tank is in the cab - and the windshield is split - but doesn't open. Engine uses 10mm plugs. Parking brake on the floor, it has the column shift 3 speed.
     
  8. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    As Dr Frankenstein said... IT'S ALIVE !!!

    Soaked the worst cylinders in Seaform overnight, Bought a compression gauge with a 10mm adapter, so I was able to get some better readings:
    1: 90 2: 90 3: 60 4: 65 5: 45 6: 60
    I loosened the rocker lash on 5 and 6 - and no real change.
    But the real trick as advancing the dizzy timing - we had replaced the points but I didn't think this would screw up the timing that much - WRONG. A slight clockwise twist (advancing it, right?) and it fired right up. It is puffing a blue cloud but seems to be getting better each time we heat cycle the truck - hoping that continued running and maybe some ATF soaking in the cylinders will further unstick the oil rings. BUT IT RUNS!!! Yippee. Going to run a compression check after we run it a bit - idles real nice. Probably gotta change the oil too - after all that WD40, motor oil, and Seafoam we sprayed into it - the dipstick is at least 1 Qt high.
    Now the only issue is the rocker ticking - I need to go back and tighten those two up. I looked at the Chevy factory manual for the valve lash procedure - and there's nothing about how to position the engine and which valves to lash when... Has anybody got a procedure - I know you have to get it warm first.
    Also... tried to actually drive the truck - and the back wheels spun - truck won't move. Looks like the front brakes are locked. Tried the forward and reverse rocking procedure but didn't try too hard. Going to take tires off and bang on the drums tomorrow - is there anything else to try?
     
  9. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    Also got the following # off the engine block - behind the Dizzy: KBM4274777 - and title says VIN is HBA747843 - but I can't find that on anything around the driver's door. Do those numbers mean anything to anybody?
     
  10. henry29
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,872

    henry29
    Member

    serial # plate should be on drivers side between the door hinges.
     
  11. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 2,152

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    These trucks were registered by either the engine number or the body serial number, depending on who or where it was registered. There is no vin number as we know them today. Looks like your
    truck was registered by the engine number, you won't find that number on the door.
     
  12. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    O.K., here we go:
    Valve lash is checked (and set!) with the engine running. Select a feeler gauge, rocker cover off, and slip it into the oscillating valve: I like to do the intakes first.
    A #2 'short blade' screwdriver and a 9/16" end wrench are all you need...Loosen lock nuts on adjusters before adjusting.
    Engine running; insert feeler gauge while running; use screwdriver to loosen/tighten rocker adjuster until you can slide gauge in and out. Grab box wrench and secure adjusting lock nut.

    I learned this as an apprentice: 1957. We had a lot of 'em. International trucks, too. Head gaskets weekly! If the old man saw me turning an engine by hand and adjusting valves 'statickly'... he would have had my ass!
    Hated the process at first, but gradually got 'into it'... I can still do it, just marvels the 'hot wrenches' around here. (Fair weather 'tuners')
     
    Mtn Goat likes this.
  13. Slopok
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,919

    Slopok
    Member

    Get it nice and hot first and then pull the drain plug, then watch the junk come out.
     
  14. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    Holy crap Atwater Mike... while it's running eh? I guess these stovebolts don't spurt oil out of the pushrods like my Big Block huh? So you can work with the rocker cover off and not look like a rough neck from the oil fields? OK... Hope you aren't just setting me up as a H.A.M.B newbie because I'm just dumb enough to try it... Factory manual says .010 intake and .020 exhaust for "Heavy Duty" use, or .007/.016 for regular use.
    Here's a pic of a plate that's between the hinges on the Driver's door. If I'm reading it right, it says "3HP-F 21161" - that doesn't seem to relate to the VIN on the title, and if this thing was titled based on the original block numbers, then I've got a problem, because I'm almost certain that this is a 47/48 engine that's not original to the truck... I'm guessing that VIN on the title has just been transferred from title to title over the years - and no one has tried to match it to the truck...maybe ever... The current owner has had the title in his name since 1994 - and his son owned the truck before that... and neither of them did the engine swap... so it was done a long time ago...
    BTW - overdue thanks to everyone on HAMB that helped me get this rusty tub running (and maybe someday going and stopping) It currently has a Home Depot 1 1/4 PVC cap for a brake master cylinder cap - but hey, it works.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Here's the breakdown on your serial, engine, and title numbers...
    3 = St. Louis Plant
    H = 1950
    P = 3100 series
    F = June
    21161 = plant production no. starting at 001001

    K = 1952
    B = vehicle designation
    M = Tonowanda regular engine
    KBM = 1952 Series 3100 216ci truck engine
    4274777 = one up serial no.

    H = 1950
    B = vehicle designation
    A = Flint regular engine
    HBA = 1950 Series 3100 216ci truck engine
    747843 = one up serial no.

    Ref: www.chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/models/engine.htm
    Ref: www.sanjosechevys.org/Tech/tech_decode_47_55chevtrucks.htm
     
    Mtn Goat, John Eberly and wraymen like this.
  16. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    Thank you Bowtie Coupe ! OK - good to know the chassis is a 1950, that seems clear.
    It also seems to confirm that the title VIN was based on the original 1950 engine that is no longer in the truck...

    What doesn't match is that the current engine block is a 1952 - but the Delco Dizzy part number is a 47/48, and the head has the small Delco M8 plug holes (10mm) which is 48 or older. So I guess it is a mishmash of parts - probably not uncommon on an old farm truck.

    As long as we can do a title transfer in Texas (and they don't do a VIN inspection) then we should be OK.
     
    Bowtie Coupe likes this.
  17. Bill Rinaldi
    Joined: Mar 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,877

    Bill Rinaldi
    Member

    I stand corrected on the differences on 49 to 50 Chev. 3100's, how ever I've never seen the side vents on any thing but 48/49. As for the door vin tag, look at other 3100 vin tags. What I have seen is a tin tag, riveted to the body, plainly marked Chevrolet(or GMC) with other writing and the vin number clearly stamped (or reversed stamped) on the tag. If you can take a picture of a tag or two, there are guys on the HAMB that can make you a tag to match what you should have. Some of the tag makers will ask for a picture of your title to verify that you have a title. I haven't noticed an ad for tags in a while but check it out. Bill
     
  18. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    Thanks Bill - this is one of those situations where I'd like to ask a DPS/Local Auto Theft Detective VIN inspector what "he" would do with a mismatched body/title/engine VIN - without "revealing the specifics of the case" as it were... Texas DPS/Local Vehicle Theft units can have a bad attitude about "re-pop" VIN plates - I think they are still sensitive about the guy up in Dallas that was moving VIN plates around on 65-67 Mustangs when he was making Gone in 60 Seconds Eleanor Recreations. They raided that place and shut them down quick. I'm sure this truck is legit - and I've met the owner and his son, and their ownership goes back to the late 80s at least....
     
  19. chiro
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,185

    chiro
    Member

    No worries. If the VIN tag on the pillar is original and it matches the title you are good to go. Engine swaps were common on those trucks, but most opted for the 235, not another 216.

    Andy
     
    chicog likes this.
  20. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,540

    RMONTY
    Member

    You can always go the "bonded" title route. There are several people around the state that can get it done. With you knowing the history there is little chance of anyone trying to lay claim to that old truck.
     
  21. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    Well - today, she runs and drives... around the block - then decided not to start... Who knew that the delco distributor has a pinch clamp and that can get loose? - then the upper body and cap can spin any which way - screwing up the timing. Kinda sorted that out - but I need to actually time it with a light, and look at the vacuum advance - I don't see the cap twist when I rev it - and I think it should. The metal vac line is hooked to the carb adapter, but I haven't checked anything else.
    Actually the brakes were much more fun than the engine - the right front wheel was locked up solid - and no amount of forward/reverse would free it up. Since I'm a rookie, I didn't know about the access hole in the backing plate that lets you back off the star wheel adjusters - so I just took out the outer wheel bearing - and started banging on the drum until I was able to get screwdrivers behind it and wedge it off. Shoe was nicely rusted to the drum. Nothing a wire brush and brake cleaner couldn't fix. Not fun but it goes back on easy if you back off the adjuster a few clicks.
    The day ended when the carb started leaking fuel around the throttle shaft - it's leaking externally and also internally - flooding the engine - I'm guessing that the needle and seat are sticking. There's no fire risk when gas is dumping right down on your exhaust manifold, right? Time for a carb kit.
     
    clunker likes this.
  22. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,799

    flatford39
    Member

    Sounds like you are having fun......When you going to take the old man for a ride??? Make sure you post a pic or two of that.
     
  23. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    Oh don't worry - Ed the owner rode shotgun today. I asked him if HE wanted to drive - and he just said "No - you did all the work on it, you drive". I think he's really to the point where it isn't fun for him anymore. And I after learned that it takes MANY spins of the wheel to make tight corner - I get his point. It also has square tires from sitting for 5 years - so the ride is like a Flintstone Mobile with square rock tires. When we got back, I asked him when he was taking his wife Edna for a ride - and he said "She didn't like to ride in it when I first bought it - there's no way she's riding in it now". Ed and Edna - I am not making this up. I will post a youtube video when we get the carb and timing figured out - maybe he'll drive it after it can go more than 1 mile with a major engine breakdown?
     
    kiwijeff and need louvers ? like this.
  24. 6-bangertim
    Joined: Oct 3, 2011
    Posts: 408

    6-bangertim
    Member
    from California

    RUNNING Mike???

    On my Stovebolts, I set the lash STATIC, adjust both valves at TDC for each cylinder. I use a sharpie to mark the top of the distributor housing even with each terminal on the cap. With the cap off, rotate the engine until the rotot lines up with your mark. 1-5-3-6-2-4 Firing order. With a solenoid, you can connect a remote starter switch, pull a plug and bump the starter with your finger over the plug hole - when compression blows your finger off, STOP! Close enough to TDC, go adjust the valves for the cylinder. Ya just can't miss setting valves at TDC or on the compression stroke! On a COLD engine, I'll add .003" to the lash spec, puts me within 1-2 thou when I get the engine to temp and run the valves again.

    I time them STATIC also, never fool with a timing light. TDC for #1 is a ball on the flywheel, window with a pointer on Pass. side of bellhousing - near the starter. Watch for it as the rotor nears your mark for #1, line up ball to pointer.
    Next, adjust Octane Slector to 0 (1/2" wrench), loosen pinch screw behind dizzy.
    Pull #1 plug wire, turn keyswitch ON.
    Rotate the dizzy HOUSING, sweeping slightly around your #1 mark to the rotor - LOOK for spark from the wire, STOP - verify housing mark to rotor when you see spark. Tighten pinch screw. Timed at TDC. Keyswitch OFF.
    Advance timing at Octane Slector, start at 6-8 degrees. Maybe go to 10 if it still starts easily HOT!

    On my 235's, I have a punch mark for #1 on the dizzy housing top edge... damn-handy!

    Good Luck, Tim
     
    chiro likes this.
  25. chiro
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,185

    chiro
    Member

  26. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    Hey 6-Bangertim, THANKS for the timing and valve lash procedure - I think you just saved me hours of frustration trying to figure out the whole pinch bolt vs Octane Selector hold down situation. Us small block guys aren't smart enough to figure that complicated stuff out on our own- we need timing lights and HEI dizzys... Do you have any advice for me on how to troubleshoot the vacuum advance? I'm pretty sure the pinch bolt behind the dizzy was loose until I tightened it yesterday - so it might actually advance now when you rev it - I was too overwhelmed by carb flooding yesterday to really check it out.

    And now you can all laugh that YES I did attempt to adjust valve lash with it running yesterday - and yes you can run a stovebolt with the rocker cover off - once I noticed that the valve cover has vents in the top, I figured the oil didn't spray out too much - it just kinda drips off the rocker shaft. I didn't dare adjust anything while running but I did check all the valve lashes with the feeler gauge while it idling. I knew that I'd only screwed up 5 and 6 - so I was able to compare the lash on the others, shut the engine off, then tighten those 4 valves until they matched the rest (while running). It isn't scary to feeler gauge it while running, but NO WAY would I try to adjust valves while running. The motor is nice and quiet now - no more ticky ticky.

    The truck almost doesn't smoke now - so I'm curious what the compression is now that I've done several heat cycles. I guess you can't kill a stovebolt, even if you let the cylinders rust for 5 years.

    Carb kit on order from Ebay - got the fancy one with the carb float - of course no parts store has one locally. I hope this is the right one - the factory manual says there were two different carb sizes for the 216 or 235 - and this kit is for a 235, yet no one seems to make a kit for just the 216 - they all seems to cover the 216 & 235.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rochester-1-BBL-BC-BV-B-1932-1962-Carburetor-Kit-235-L6-Chevy-/380407294552
     
    6-bangertim likes this.
  27. 6-bangertim
    Joined: Oct 3, 2011
    Posts: 408

    6-bangertim
    Member
    from California

    KOOL, happy to help ya! :) I've been messing with these old turds for 40-odd years, as I STILL have my '53 5-window I bought in Jan., 1974. Truck came with a running gear from a '60 car, was my first ride at 16... retirement project now (9 more git-ups), for somtime in 2017. Also have a '57 150 (2-door sedan) with a 235, sumday will see a healthy 261 six!

    Nail the throttle, and you should see the dizzy turn to check the vacuum advance. A MightyVac hand pump will also confirm its condition.

    GOOD to hear the rockers are oiling - rebuilt rocker assemblies are PRICY, and it doesn't take much crud to shut the oil off!

    Where are you located? LOOK for an old-school parts store that still uses catalogs - good chance they can get what you need from a warehouse in your region, within a couple days. NAPA can be good, if they weren't so damn proud of their shit. :(

    MUCHO Luck, and Happy New Year, Tim
     
  28. 6-bangertim
    Joined: Oct 3, 2011
    Posts: 408

    6-bangertim
    Member
    from California

    Damn, forgot to mention that pinch screw is 1/4-20, easily replaced by an Allen-head, makes life a lil' easier!
     
    Atwater Mike and belair like this.
  29. F1Jim64
    Joined: Dec 23, 2016
    Posts: 60

    F1Jim64

    Thanks 6-bangertim - I was fighting with that pinch screw yesterday - it has a slotted head on it - looks like a freaking wood screw. Maybe time to replace with a nice Homie Depot allen head 1/4-20.

    On the carb kit, I was about to pull the trigger on the $32 Ebay kit with float - but I found a $19.99 kit at Autozone - and my local store actually stocked it. Found something on line that said the 216 and 235 used two different Rochester B carbs - with the 235 having a slightly bigger bore. Everybody seems to carry only one type of Rochester B rebuilt kit (216/235) - so I'm going to look real closely at the accel pump parts and bowl gasket to make sure that my Autozone kit is the right one for this carb. I managed to rebuild Qjets in high school so hopefully I can handle a one-barrel (famous last words). I'm hoping it's just the needle and seat - or something easy to fix. I know the bowl is full of trash.
    I have a mitivac - so I can put vacuum on the carb line and watch it. Adding vacuum should make it advance, right? Or does revving it make it loose vacuum and retard - then the mechanical advance overwhelms it and advances? I forget how all that stuff works - I just know it wasn't rotating when I revved it.

    And I'm in Austin - most parts stores have to special order stuff from warehouses in Dallas or Houston. Sometimes a store in town will be a Superstore/Warehouse for weird parts - and they will be able to get it that day. It is funny to buy points and condensers - only the guys with lots of gray hair know what they are... am I really that old... yep.

    The parts store had "Counting Cars" on their big screen when I was there - the shop wrecker is a Cab-Over-Engine Flatbed Advanced Design truck from the 40s or 50s. Those things make me laugh whenever I see one.
     
    6-bangertim likes this.
  30. 6-bangertim
    Joined: Oct 3, 2011
    Posts: 408

    6-bangertim
    Member
    from California

    SHIT! I should have mentioned Rockauto.com - you could compare carb kits there between the 216 and 235... window shop for parts there 24/7, then compare prices with the locals. NICE to copy down your own part #'s. I'm just NOT familiar with the 216 to help there - might be a difference with the base gasket, maybe other gaskets too - IDK. The guy to talk to would be Jon at the Carburator Shop in Eldon, Missouri - known here as 'carbking', and have herd GREAT things about his kits, neat info on his website too!
    Thanks man for keeping us up to speed! Take Care, Tim
     

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