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Technical 1950 Buick HELP!!!! Very Frustrated. About Ready to Give Up!!!!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by GreaserJosh13, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 570

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Hey Guys, I need some major help. I can't get my car to start. I thought I had everything done & ready to go, but I guess not. I actually got it to start & run before I took it all apart & now it's back together again & I'm dumbfounded. Here's what I've do e so far.
    -rebuilt carb & replaced broken heat tube from exhaust manifold to carb.
    -cleaned cylinder head
    -took apart & cleaned rocker arm/put back together
    -removed/cleaned/installed lifters
    -cleaned/replaced push rods
    - new 6V battery
    -new 0 gauge battery cables
    -rebuilt distributor/cap/points/etc. & aligned rotor with #1 plug.
    -new plugs
    -new plug wires
    -new 6V ignition coil
    -removed oil pan/cleaned/installed with new seal.
    -new oil pick up screen
    -cleaned oil pump & packed with Vaseline
    - fresh fuel coming from a gas can. Not the tank. Fuel pump is working because carb is getting fuel.
    -fresh oil

    I think that's it. The car seems to be turning over really slow. Like it's not getting enough juice to fire the car. #1 plug wire is getting spark. I've tried two different sets of plug wires. 2 different ignition coils. 2 different batteries. I'm really stuck. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks




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  2. JD Miller
    Joined: Nov 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,908

    JD Miller
    Member
    from Wildomar

    Its the oil pan gasket
     
  3. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 570

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Are you correcting me or saying the car won't start because of the gasket.


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  4. OneBlackTriumph
    Joined: Apr 21, 2014
    Posts: 11

    OneBlackTriumph
    Member
    from SoCal

    1. Check plug wire order
    2. Check voltage for bad battery (probably already did this, but in case)
    3. You sure the starter is good?
    4. You didn't mess with timing over than the distributor? I'd recheck that, too. I hate working on timing because it's often a culprit... Grrr...
    5. Try some starter fluid just to see if the car will fire and is getting adequate spark. Maybe the new coil is weak?

    Good luck. :)
     

  5. randy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2003
    Posts: 679

    randy
    Member

    sounds like the it's 180 degrees out. Did you pull the distributor for the rebuild?
     
  6. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 570

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Did one & two. Seems like starter is ok, but it hasn't been replaced. I lined up the timing mark with the distributor as stated by the book as well. Tried starter fluid multiple times. Tried 2 different coils.
     
  7. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 570

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Yes I did pull the distributor. After assembling I replaced it as described in the book. How can I tell if its 180 degrees out?
     
  8. redhumphries
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 423

    redhumphries
    Member

    large vaccum leak keeping it from starting if all else is correct
     
  9. Leviman
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 201

    Leviman
    Member

    Make sure your battery connections are super solid. And that the engine has a great ground. Other than that, ignition timing to far advanced? Throw a timing light on it. Should fire the light.
     
  10. Torana68
    Joined: Jan 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,253

    Torana68
    Member
    from Australia

    this could be the long way but locate TDC no 1 , valve cover off, watch as you rotate towards TDC inlet should close then TDC. set dist so rotor is point at no one in the cap. Check all the leads are in correct order, crank whilst moving dist forward and back a bit, should fire....
     
  11. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,932

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    There's still a LOT that can be wrong!
    Are you sure you set the plug wires up right? as in, correctly on the cap,. according to the distributor rotation? I had problems with my 55 Olds, cause it rotated the opposite way my Chevy did!
    Do you have good compression? ALL cylinders?
    Did you set the "dwell"? Just with a feeler gage, or double check with a meter?
    How are you checking spark at the plug? screwdriver, or a spark checking device? A spark checker will give the proper "resistance" to the plug and wires, to simulate what the engine needs, just using a screwdriver might show spark, but it might be too weak to fire a cylinder.
    If it is cranking slow, check the starter circuit first, battery condition, grounds, batt. cables, etc. Watch battery voltage as you crank, see if it is dropping off too much ( under 10.5 v. on a 12 v system is usually not enough to fire the ignition, not sure of 6 v.)
    I know you said you rpelaced the battery, but if after repeated crankings, it looses voltage, you might need a jump, or charger boost, if you've got a 6 volt battery charger.
     
  12. kjvma131
    Joined: Jan 10, 2014
    Posts: 31

    kjvma131
    Member
    from New Jersey

    Don't give up. Go back to basics, perform a compression check to be sure that the base engine is ok. You did have the valvetrain all apart and if you are not building compression you can throw fuel and spark at it all day long, it won't start. You also state it cranks slow, was it that way before or is this new? Perhaps the battery is not up to snuff. Is it trying to start, what I mean is, is it popping through the intake, or just nothing at all? Good luck.
     
  13. Zerk
    Joined: May 26, 2005
    Posts: 1,418

    Zerk
    Member

    What the others have said, plus the initial valve adjustment which must be done after reassembly. The procedure is available online. The lifters may need to be filled and "bled" before reinstalling, maybe possibly perhaps.
    Good luck.
     
  14. Flamed48
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 675

    Flamed48
    Member

    Your battery cabel aren't the right gauge. My car does that to when you've been driving and you pull off to get gas the cabel is to hot I gotta let the car cool off


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  15. lurking luddite
    Joined: Feb 6, 2011
    Posts: 11

    lurking luddite
    Member

    I am with flamed 48, 6 volt cables should be double 0 I believe.

    Also 6 volt cars like solid core wires not the carbon core late model type.
     
  16. lurking luddite
    Joined: Feb 6, 2011
    Posts: 11

    lurking luddite
    Member

    Also I have a 1951 Buick and I cannot remember if it is positive ground like my Packard. Do you have to wire the positive side of the coil different if so?
     
  17. F A S T
    Fuel air spark timing in that order but after compression.

    So run a compression test.

    Ok you've checked fuel to carb but carb itself is unproven after rebuild.
    All you can do is set initial mixture and hope its ok. Other than a few checks it will be verified or singled out later.

    Air, you need free flow thru the carb and intake but no place else aka vacuum leaks

    Spark, ok you have spark , should be hot and blue with a nice sharp crack like a whip not clapping hands.

    Timing, if you are having trouble I'd set up a piston stop and verify your TDC marks you'll be glad you did this. Be sure you have the correct cylinder designations, the rotation of the rotor and firing order as published. Don't use that Fucked up MSD chart as there are many mistakes. Understand why # 1 will pass TDC twice in a cycle that's an important concept. Bring #1 up to TDC on compression and see if rotor is where it's supposed to be. Compare cap and see that #1 wire is corresponding with rotor position using the cap locating tabs.

    Ok, make your last min sweep and turn the key.
    Fires up or putters you are close and tuning can begin.
    Pops and backfires your timing is off rotate dizzy
    Bucks the starter your timing is off rotate dizzy
    Nothing ? You have trouble.
    Try starting fluid, if it putters on fluid you have a fuel/ carb problem.
    Nothing on fluid you have an ignition or compression problem.
    Since you've done the compression test you know wich it is, and since you did a piston stop and understand why #1 crosses twice you know it's not dizzy placement related you can easily trouble shoot the ignition system.

    Took me longer to type than just do the stuff
     
  18. F A S T
    Fuel air spark timing in that order but after compression.

    So run a compression test.

    Ok you've checked fuel to carb but carb itself is unproven after rebuild.
    All you can do is set initial mixture and hope its ok. Other than a few checks it will be verified or singled out later.
    Q
    Air, you need free flow thru the carb and intake but no place else aka vacuum leaks

    Spark, ok you have spark , should be hot and blue with a nice sharp crack like a whip not clapping hands.

    Timing, if you are having trouble I'd set up a piston stop and verify your TDC marks you'll be glad you did this. Be sure you have the correct cylinder designations, the rotation of the rotor and firing order as published. Don't use that Fucked up MSD chart as there are many mistakes. Understand why # 1 will pass TDC twice in a cycle that's an important concept. Bring #1 up to TDC on compression and see if rotor is where it's supposed to be. Compare cap and see that #1 wire is corresponding with rotor position using the cap locating tabs.

    Ok, make your last min sweep and turn the key.
    Fires up or putters you are close and tuning can begin.
    Pops and backfires your timing is off rotate dizzy
    Bucks the starter your timing is off rotate dizzy
    Nothing ? You have trouble.
    Try starting fluid, if it putters on fluid you have a fuel/ carb problem.
    Nothing on fluid you have an ignition or compression problem.
    Since you've done the compression test you know wich it is, and since you did a piston stop and understand why #1 crosses twice you know it's not dizzy placement related you can easily trouble shoot the ignition system.

    Took me longer to type than just do the stuff
     
  19. I like the way Zerk is thinking here. Definitely look into the lifters and valve adjustments.

    DO A CRANKING VACUUM TEST...

    Connect vacuum gauge to a source of manifold vacuum.

    Remove and plug any vacuum hoses and pipes connected to manifold vacuum.

    Completely close throttle plates, including backing off the idle speed adjustment screw.

    Make sure battery is fully charged.

    Disconnect coil lead from distributor cap.

    Crank engine over and read manifold vacuum while cranking. If it's not pulling 3 to 6 inches it probably won't start.
     
  20. creepjohnny
    Joined: Dec 1, 2007
    Posts: 877

    creepjohnny
    Member
    from Sunland,CA

    Just helped a friend with his rebuilt engine, he tightend the rockers too tight and it wasnt starting even with fuel and spark. It sounded close but didnt catch. We loosened them to proper torque and bam! Fired up.
    And I was gonna say, check if its +ground and check your point gap again. Good luck man!!

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  21. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 570

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Holy Crap. Ok. Looks like I've got a lot of work ahead of me. Thank you all for the great advice. I'm going to give it all a try. Hope I figure it out. I should be able to with all of this information. Once I get it I'll report back. Don't be mad if it's not for a while. Ha ha.
    Thanks


    In Need Of:
    1950 Buick Front & Rear Bumper Guards.
    1955 Buick Headlight Bezels w/out lower marker lights.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     

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