I have a customer who has just bought a 48 Diamond T pick up that has the warner T9 tranny. He is having problems shifting this thing , it grinds on every shift and when you first put it in low gear when setting still. It will grind the first time you put it in low gear but then you can move the shifter in and out of gear with no grinding but if you cycle the clutch pedal up and down it will grind again one time. Now this is a up coming project so a couple questions (trying to do my home work) 1) is this a synchronized tranny 2)what gear oil would it use Now the plan when I get to it will be to 1) double check the clutch adjustment 2) drain and inspect gear oil then refill with proper gear oil But now I have been thinking that maybe its a problem with the pilot bearing, Any thoughts Thanks James
The Warner t-9 is a non syncro trans. I'll bet the grinding has something to do with the clutch, throwout, or pilot bearing. For the grinding between shifts, is he double clutching it ? Thats mandatory for these trans.
He has tried the double clutch thing with on help. I am thinking what ever is causing the problem when it is setting still is the same problem when it is going down the road. ??
I would check adjustment. If there is a removable cover on the bell housing, check to see that the clutch plate is loose on the shaft. If it isn't loose on the shaft it will drag a bit on the flywheel causing the problems you are describeing.
I keep thinking that but once the shifter has been put in gear you can take it in and out of gear with no grind after the first grind if that makes sense.
Once you have the trans movement stopped, you have more drag to get it moving than the amount of drag on clutch face.
That makes sense. I couldn't see the trees for forest. Ha Ha That will be the first on the list when I get to it.
I am going to guess it's operator error. Those old crash boxes require a great deal of finesse to drive. Before you put it in first, put it in third to stop the movement in the trans. Then stick it in first. It should slide right in. A slight, occasional, grind is to be expected. Double clutching is a skill that has to be mastered. You can't just stab the pedal twice and call it double clutching. You should be able to run it through the gears, without the clutch, once you've gotten the feel of the truck
The other thing to remember is that this truck will never be a speed demon no matter how fast he learns to shift.I think 45MPH is about top speed with this truck.
What he said. Once you can match engine/input shaft speed to the proper gear (perfectly) it'll shift like butter if the trans is in good repair. Go ride with an old farmer in his harvest truck that actually goes from field to storage and they'll show you how.
Yep, once you get the feel of it, the clutch is only used to start and stop, rest of the time you float the gears. I do it everyday in my Freightliner. I would think that old of a trans would need some thick lube, no less than 90w, maybe even 140w. The heavy lube will also slow the gears down to shift.
I personally have not had any experience with any of these old trannys and my guess he has not ether.
The truck was acquired in a trade with the guys at Fast Lanes out side of St Louis. I have not had the much time to spend with the truck yet. I think he did a good trade. traded a Prowler for it.
Yeah, even if he swapped 3 or 4 Prowlers for it. Those 201's, in the condition of the one you posted, are trading for 6 figures. Pretty truck.
I know he paid some boot but I don't know how much but it sure help the ambiance of his car barn to that thing out of there.
I agree that it is probably inexperience that is causing your difficulties. Like the man sez, those old trucks require finesse and practice to make 'em perform smoothly. You have to "synchronize" the gears yourself, by feathering the gas pedal so the engine RPM is close enough to the gear speeds that it just slips in without clashing. Move the lever with a firm motion, nothing to be gained by being gentle. It's a knack that some never pick up, some get it right away. First thing you must learn to do is the trick of putting it in third, or even fourth, before going for first. That stops the input shaft with a minimum of fuss and grinding, as stated above. By the way, don't be scared off by some pretty awful noises while you are practicing, those things are virtually indestructible! Oh, and that's a super truck!
Hopefully I will get the chance to take the old girl out soon.The roads have got sloppy here. I well keep you guy posted.
Check to see that there is about an inch of free pedal and the clutch should be alright,as has been said there is an art to double clutching,he most likely doesn't have a handle on how to do it, if he could get a chance to ride with some one that knows what they are doing he will learn easy from that. The first year I took the 37 White park bus to Yellowstone for our annual trip the guy that was working for the owner at the time was riding second seat,after a couple stops and miles he's leaning over my shoulder,Ahhh he says no wonder I don't hear any gear crashing you been double clutching this,I guess I should do that too,my reply was thats why you guys don't keep it with you anymore,none of you can drive, he did improve after that.
Ok guy the third to first think worked for getting it in to first without grinding. Have not had the chance to get it on the road yet and it looks like more crappy weather coming so it may be a wile before a road test. Thanks for the help.
being its a 4 speed the rev spread on the shifts are going to be rather far apart , almost like a old mack truck . I would look for a owners manula to see what the shift spread is on it . to make it easier to drive , as the more gears the shorter the rpm drop per shift is needed . this might be a winder up and then take a nap between shift truck . some of the older GMc gassers we had on the farm you took it to the govenor then pulled and poked it .
Is your friend a hired truck driver? I have the same problem with truck drivers. When you allow a stationary vehicle to run then if it has a manual transmission then it must be placed in neutral. That allows the input shaft and counter shaft to rotate at engine speed. Those that could give a shit jump in the vehicle, depress the clutch peddle and stop the spinning gears by grinding the stationary gear against spinning gear. Once there are no gears spinning then there will be no grinding. Apply that to your own comment and it will fit right in with one of your statements. Older truck transmission were not synchronized so the driver had to double clutch in order to shift without grinding the gears. The technique requires depressing the clutch, placing transmission in neutral, releasing the clutch in order to bring the stationary gear up to speed, depressing the clutch, and finalizing the shift. Or the driver if they are a knowledgeable driver can feather the throttle in order place the transmission in a zero load condition, slip the transmission into neutral, gauge the drop in engine RPM and know when the time is right to place the transmission in the desired gear. For down shifting the process is the same with the exception that the driver must increase the engine RPM. Judging by the appearance of the truck I doubt that it has any problems other than humans. McGurk
No he is not a truck driver his other old truck is a AD chevy with a 3 speed. Sounds like when the weather and roads clear up we will go for a drive and see witch one of us can educate the other on the shifting procedure. I still think I will drop the oil in it and refill with the proper oil when I figure out what that is.
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