1947 plymouth in need of words of wisdom

I hope I am posting this in the right place. Anybody out there got any experince building on a 47 plymouth coupe. Looking for suggestions on engine I have a big block chevy and a small block ford (396 and 289 hipo). Looking for info on disk brakes, rack and pinnion steering, maybe a s10 frame swap,or front clip. Hope to start back up on my project, soon looking for words of wisdom. body is striped from original frame. frame is no good but have three other 46-48s with good frame, could use one of those. I aslo have a mid 80s s10 std cab swb could use that. By the way i have a lots of spare parts if you need something let me know.

 

i dont think this is the right spot but whatever. my choice would be the bbc with an s10 frame swap. the s10 frame swap would be cheaper than a disc and rack and pinion conversion. the bbc might have some fitment issues but not quite sure. you would need a 117" wheelbase s10(std cab long bed).

 

Do a search their is a ton of topics on this, at least 6 i can think of off the top of my head.
Me i would throw that chevy garbage out and get a 440/727, A or B body 8 3/4 rear end, and a disc brake kit from rustyhope, and relocate the shocks and you will have a nice all mopar ride. much less work than the S-10 swap and a lot cheaper! did that to mine at least 15yrs ago and it is a blast to drive.

OK let the bashing begin!!

 

shop around a bit for the discs, calipers, and rack and pinion, only buying the brackets etc new, you could probably do both for less than 800, and that's a pretty high estimate i bet. I did a disc brake conv. on my '50 for about $350


**edit: didnt see you had an s10 frame already.**
I still vote to keep it all mopar. lots of unnecessary work to mate that body to another frame.


the chassis for my '50 has IFS, same as the s10,
leaf spring's in the back, same as the s10,
and the front 3/4 of the rails are fully boxed,
I'm not so sure about the s-10 chassis.
I bet the chassis your '47 is on is about the same as mine.

So why fix it if it ain't broke?

and he's right, there's a lot of info on here about these cars, even a guy doing an s-10 chassis swap i think, if your adamant about doing it.

 

I would not do a S10 frame swap. I have 47 dodge coupe and the frame is as stout as the one under my '03 Ram. I dropped in a 383/727/8 3/4 combo. I'm not sure if the plymouth engine bay in smaller or not, i don know the over car is, but you should still be able to fit the big block. The small should also fit. I personally would sell both motors and pick up a 360 if you want it to easy (plydo sells kits) or big block mopar if you want a brute of a motor.

When I got my car everyone with dodge experience told me to keep the front suspension, rebuild it and relocate the shocks. I have drive the car yet, but I'm glad I went this route. The front suspension looks like a good design with the exception of the shocks.

 

If you gotta ask, you're probably not ready to do anything very serious with your car...much less a successful frame swap.

I've had a '48 Business Man's Coupe for over 25 years which may be of interest to you.

In it's first incarnation I cut the coils, changed the front shock mounts and drove it...a lot. (see first photo)

In the second incarnation I installed a Dodge Dart 318/automatic w/ a 9-inch Ford rear axle. Eventually went to a PlyDo front disc kit because it wouldn't stop. Drove it that way for a very long time, including several cross-country trips. This worked out very well and is what I'd recommend for you.

Dodge motor goes in fairly easily, using an early '70s Dart left exhaust manifold and offsetting the engine to the right a bit. I understand PlyDo has mounts for this swap now.

Third incarnation is totally custom running gear, built by Ray Lund of Simi Valley, CA. (see last photo) This is the way the car is now.

PS: I still have the 9-inch axle set up for the Plymouth if you're interested. See the Classifieds or PM me.

 

Thanks for the input. Im not dedicated to any engine combo, but I do have both of these on engine stands ready to go. As far as the s10 if have read some on this topic. that is why I have gathered four cars to try and find a good frame. witch i have at least two now. Does any one have a link to plydo? I have heard that the engine bay is kind of small for big block engines.
Dvanecek the best I understand your dodge and my plymouth are pretty much the same. P-15/ D-24. I keep hearing to relocate the shocks, anybody with pics, or more details.
Guys i appericate everybodys input, but i want to say this, I love cars Ford, Chevy, and Mopar. To all of the Mopar fans, I understand from my years of being a car fan that you guys are probably the most devoted. But for me I think every american auto maker has made good and bad, and when they get ^0 years oul it doesnt hurt to cross breed a little

 

Ply-Do owner died & they closed for a while, but have reopened, hopefully with better customer service. If he's still open "Mr. Street Rod" 805-589-9292 has what you need for disc conversion, shock relocation & motor mounts for 318. Cavalier P.S. kits are available(fatman?) Rear sump 318, SBC or double sump pan on earlier SBF would fit in.

 

Mopar was 1st to use tube shocks, but the idiots ran them from the lower to upper A Arms! The relocation kit welds a perch on the frame for the upper end of the shock to mount to.

 

The front brakes and as mentioned earlier the shocks mounted to the upper and lower control arms were a problem with those cars. Keep it simple.

 

Listen to MISSYSDAD,he litterally wrote the book on building these cars with his series on building his car in ROD ACTION in the late eighties. My car was built following the articles he wrote 318,904,disc brakes, stock front end,etc., and performed nicely. Ironically, after he left writing and revamped the chassis of his car, Idid mine damn near the same. So my recomendation? Small block,(mine is a mopar 360, but a Chevy would fit very well too), Mustang11 front suspension on the stock frame, Mopar rearend on de arched and reversed eye springs, good aftermarket wiring kit. My car has been on the road as my daily driver now for fifteen years, and handles, stops, and drives as well as any later model car - more comfortable too.

 

I put a small block Chevrolet engine in a ’49 Plymouth, which has a chassis quite similar yours. There is a lot of room except around the steering box. You should have no problem fitting the small block Ford engine, which is narrower than a small block Chevy, but I would hesitate to stuff a big block Chevy into one of these unless you change the steering gear. Either way, keep the Plymouth frame; it’s much better than the S-10. Rod & Custom Magazine had a good article about suspension modifications on old Mopars that covered repositioning the front shock absorbers. It was still on the “tech” portion of their website the last time I checked. Personally, I wouldn’t do that; the Mopar method actually does work and allows greater suspension travel; but it looks strange if you are used to Chevys and Fords and definitely results in a different road “feel” that is a bit too boat-like for some people. Likewise the brakes are really OK for their time but with the more powerful engine you may want to convert to disc brakes. Disc brake conversions are available from several sources, notably Fat Man Fabrications. Good luck.

 

Do a search for Plymouth in the title and you will have reading for days!
You will also get to know the guys here better.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/search.php?searchid=7411765
You can also search for S10 frame, but I'd rather you don't even bother.

Read this member's blog that outlines his work, and has a copy of the Rod Action article.
http://shadowmtkustomz.blogspot.com/

 

How does the stock shock location work "good" when it doesn't allow full shock travel?Your suspension actually bottams out first and will not allow your shocks to do their job properly.

 

I did a tech on the shock mounts a long time ago:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215548&highlight=shock

 

I have a 51 3W that I put a rear steer Camaro stub underneath. Inner fenders have to go, but it's a MUCH better suspension and disc brakes. I'm running a 383/A833 combo, but your BBC will drop right in. I know it wouldn't have been done that way in the 60s, but IMO it's easier and makes for a better driver. Using the rear steer stub allows the stock column to attach to the box very easily, or a GM tilt column will bolt right back onto the box.

 

You can get ford F1 or dodge truck shock mounts for 20 buck each and with a minimum of work change the front shock mounts. You can get a hold of Old daddy on this forum and get his disc brake kit for about 200 bucks, then source new rotors and calipers and have disc brakes for less than rebuilding the old stock system. if you install a v8 you can offset ti about 1 1/2 to 2 inches to the pass side to clear the stock steering, and you can use a cavalier rack and pinion with some adapters.

YOu can add a rear end from a Mopar B body by relocating the spring perches.

Lots of general info about your car at

www.p15-d24.com

 

As I have done a 52 I will speek on that build its very close and doing another with a member now only a 49 dodge. If you have a S-10 frame use it !!!!! its easer and cheaper then the switch over to disk ( a vender old daddy) makes a good disk kit.
with the S-10 you get brakes and easy bolt rims and can set the body over the frame so you have a channeled body at the start. Its hard to beat the 396 you can buy parts at any wall mart for the GM motors. If you stay with the Mopar frame be ready to pay ! its a good car to build But do it smart with a little work you can have a safe and easy car to drive.

 

Thanks for all the input. If it ever quits raining here maybe i can get a chance to pull the little coupe back in the shop and try to get started doing something right or wrong. I talked to a friend who has a lwb std cab s10 body and he said he would be glad to trade, so i think I am going to do the swap and opt for the 396. Ive made bad decissions before, I hope this is not the next in a long line.

 

I have a 48 Club Coupe that is my daily driver. Rebuilt stock suspension but I do have Olddaddy's kit and parts to do the disc swap with soon. Like I said this is my daily driver in and around Dallas. Handles the city streets and highway speeds with absolutely no problems.

Did over 800 miles round trip to the HAMB Drags and see no benefit to work it would take to do a frame swap. The disc kit I have will require drilling and tapping 4 holes, then everything is a straight bolt on. Brackets for shock location can be welded up and on the car in a matter of a few hours. Rack/Pinion requires welding of a couple brackets to the crossmember then is pretty much a bolt in from there. You could have the disc brakes, relocated shocks, and Rack/Pinion installed with a good solid days work. That beats a frame swap hands down.

This is my second 48 Plymouth Coupe and I drove the first one as a daily for over a year with the stock suspension. Then I let a fairly accomplished professional builder talk me into a Nova subframe. Other than the addition of the disc brakes with the subframe there was very little difference in the ride or driving of the car.

I would strongly suggest you go with the simple upgrades of the stock suspension and save yourself a lot of headaches which will not net you any real gain in ride or drive quality.

 

exwestracer is right the camaro ,nova rear steer subframe works great on these old mopars. my brother has done a 48 ply, 48 desoto, and 50 desoto with this set up and they slip right in the mopar frame like they were made for them.
we even put one under a stubebaker truck and i'm just getting ready to do my 53 chevy handyman wagon.
one problem with these old mopars is the narrow area around the grill, tight radiator fitment.
another thought is measure a dodge dakota my friend likes to use them under 50 chevy trucks, disc brakes,rack steering and still a mopar if that realy matters.
personally if i'm building a daily driver i don't care if it's a mut, some of the best dogs i've had were muts.
hope that helps

 

That was going to be my exact comment about the difference between the stub swap and the stock front end. I think the stock rad could be marginal if you're building any HP...

I originally modified the core support to fit a modern crossflow rad. Then I junked it and went to a tilt front end .

 

Thanks again, I keep hearing that the stock frame is as good if not better that the s10. The original frame under the business coupe is trash. I have two club coupes and a sedan, I could pull the frame from one of those, The best that I understand they are the same. But I cant seem to find Ply/do, mr street rod, and Im not sure how to start looking for Old Daddy.
Any help with this would appericated.
Im getting a head of myself. But does anybody have any experience building rockers and floor pans for these cars. I have see them on plymouth doctors Complete they would be around $350. per side. I have acess to an eight foot brake, and I have some sheet metal experience. A 4x10 sheet of 18g cold roll would cost me $70. bear in mind time is easier to come by than money.

 

Mr Street Rod

 

Here is a link to Oldaddy's website http://www.rustyhope.com/

Fatman's also has dropped spindles, and rack/pinion kits. As I understand it the dropped spindles also come with the shock relocation brackets as well.

 

I found Oldaddys, The disk brake looks simple enough. I also found fatman fab. They have a GREAT article on the supension, shock relocation, and brake conversion. Thanks for the info guys.


Any words on rockers and floor pans

 

I'm makin my own my dodge, but you can get parts for your plymouth here.

http://www.plymouthdoctor.com/automobile.html

 

The much-maligned Mopar front shock absorber system: the shocks do dampen suspension movement, which is what shocks are for, but they float with the control arms instead of being anchored to the frame at one end. If you are hoping for sports car handling from your ’47 Plymouth then you’ll want to change this.

 

How do I find Old Daddy on this forum with the disc brake kit

 

www.rustyhope.com

he has recently reduced the price and is including shipping.

The frames from all the plymouth's are the same between the body styles except for the covertible and woody which have exta bracing. If you need some extra room infront of the engine ther radiator can pretty easily be repositioned infront of the surround. Several folks are cooling 440's with the stock honey comb radiators. They are really over built for the stock motor with a huge capacity compared to todays stuff.

R CAR fabrications has floor pans and I believe rockers. Somebody is selling floor pans on Ebay once and a while.