The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by redzula, Oct 21, 2015.
Haha my wife would not have been on board with that I'm sure. Would have been fun though.
If you had to do it again would you
What all is involved with installing it.
For the price difference, I'd probably go with the standard king pin set and have them reamed as necessary.
As far as installing the deluxe set, it would take me a while to re-count and spell out the process. Easiest is to take a look at their instructions
I know Malcom drives his roadster a lot, and if he has had good luck with those new-fangled kingpins, all the better. BUT, I have read that they cause brinnelling to the kingpin since the rollers don't actually roll 99% of the time. Consider that the majority of your driving time is heading in a straight line down the interstate. Each roller just sits and pounds on the kingpin in a single spot.
Henry Ford made a few ba-jillion kingpins with the common brass bushings. He couldn't be too wrong, could he?
Well I ordered the deluxe one. Figuring I'd try it and since it doesn't modify any of the stock stuff I can always go back if there's a problem. I won't be doing that much long highway driving most likely. So hopefully with the slower speeds and more turning it won't be a problem. I guess I'll find out.
Also totally unrelated my wife and I found out that baby #3 due in August is also girl #3 lol I seem to be getting more and more out numbered at my house.
Steve46 asked me where and how I cleaned up the vin so here is a picture of it after I was done. I basically just spray bombed the bare metal. After taping the vin and then spray bombed cleared the vin.dont mind the nasty engine bay. I need to throughly clean the engine area of all the gunk. Probably whenever I rebuild the engine but that's in the long term plans.
To get your bearings you can see the left frame rail between the engine mount and the radiator.
I got the kingpin kit on Saturday and finished up the second side Sunday night. Went together pretty well.
Removed the drum and backing plate and tie rod to start
Then pull the lock pin. I removed the lock washer and put the nut back on hit it with a hammer. I wasn't sure how hard it'd be coming out and wanted a solid surface to hit on. It came out quite easily. And unthreaded the nut a bit hit again and so on until it's flush with the axle boss then a drift helped it the rest of the way.
Kingpin didn't want to move so I heated the area slightly, just enough to melt the grease out but not hot enough to get anything red. After that the pin would move a little I ended up hammering it up and then back down to loosen things up. Finally I removed the top ring that's riveted to the top of the pin using a chisel to bent it up and then use the hammer to knock it off the rivet. After that I could hammer it down which seemed to have more room to swing and it came right out through the bottom. Not sure if that's the right way but it worked well for me.
Next I went over to the bench and pressed the old bushings out. And the new needle bearings in. Starting with the bottom bore I drove in the bearing to be flush with the axle side of the bore using the installer in the kit. then installed the outer leaving a slight gap between the bearings for grease as the instructions said.
Next I loaded the thrust bering with grease and fit the spindle back on the axle with the new kingpin. Hold up on the spindle and check the clearance between the axle boss and the upper spindle mount.
Remove the pin insert the shims reassemble and recheck the clearance. Once it's right you can install the lock pin and support the spindle in order to install the upper needle bearings
Same as before the inside bearing flush with the axle side and the outer flush with the top. I had a little snag here but I'll get the that.
Next after removing the original zerks locktight the set pins into the zerk holes. The new pins grease through the top and bottom of the kingpin. You want the set screws flush with the outside of the spindle and not actually holding anything in place as it will damage the needle bearings if they're installed too far. They're basically just sealing the hole.
After that determine the spindles you have so you know which end caps to use. Mine are stock style so I used a large cap and felt washer on the top and a small cap and o ring on the bottom.
This is where I found my issue. When installed with the notch on the pin centered in the lock hole the pin sat too low at the top and too long at the bottom, meaning the o ring at the bottom wouldn't seal on anything and the felt washer up top was too thick to install the zerk and hold the cap on. My solution was to adjust the pin up and fangled the lock pin in place. It worked and the lock pin went through enough to get it locked down securely. With that I drove the upper most needle bearing slightly further in from flush with the outside leaving a little extra room for the felt to go into which in turn made it close enough to get the zerk to start threading and hold the cap and washer on. I think the issue was where the groove was located on the pin it shifter everything down making the bottom too long and the top too short. I'll keep an eye in it but I'm confident my fix won't be an issue.
I didn't get any pics of it completed since by this time it was 3 am and I as tired and needed to go home. So the last 2 pics are from when I was figuring out I had a problem.
In the process of fixing my issue I removed and drove out the bearings and started over before I really knew where the issue was in the process drove the bearing out right into my finger smashing my knuckle.. OUCH. Then Sunday night finishing up the other side while driving out the kingpin my hammer slipped off the driver and smashed my finger again. Double OUCH. same finger same knuckle. Suprised it isn't broken haha. After the 2nd time I learned my lesson and held the driver with channel locks to keep my little appendages free and clear. Had no issues after that. Finger is purple today though.
Got the paperwork back from insurance and turned into the DOT. And yesterday they let me know I could now register the car. So first thing yesterday morning I was in their office and walked out with plates. She's legal to drive. Just have to wait for the snow to clear that we are getting this morning here in Iowa.
Been driving it a bit. Still makes some ungodly noises from the front end. The shackle bushings are bad. I've been thinking all along I'd like to take off the janky lowering shackles the PO put on and go to stock length shackles and a reversed eye spring. I ordered the shackles today. But I need to build a rig for reversing the spring. Maybe pull out a leaf of two to get a similar drop to what it has now. My spring is still wrapped in the factory grease soaked cardboard (that's what it looks like at least). Am I right to assume I don't need to put that stuff back on? I guess it's to keep grease in but does it really need to be greased? I mean I've never had another car that needed the leaf Springs greased.
No you don't need it
The first cars and coffee cruise is a week from Saturday. Probably going to be cold but oh well were going. So of course I pulled the car in the shop and started taking it apart.
Started with the janky extended shackles. And seatbelts.
Turned into shackles, tie rod ends, reverse eyeing the front spring, panhard bar bushings, seatbelts and cutting out some plywood to sit on the seat so the car seats don't tear the fabric.
That was with 2 weeks until C&C
I have the spring out, cleaned, and dissassembled. Will be using the press to reverse it tonight. Wish me luck, loots pretty straight forward though.
I swapped the tie rod ends. Scraped all the gunk off the cross shaft and spray bombed it. It's ready to reinstall which I'll do close to last so I don't have to fight with the brake angle while I'm working.
I fucked up the new shackles I had while installing in the hanger on the wishbone. Ordered new ones should be here today. Anyone have any tricks to get them in so I don't screw up again? Anti-sieze, Honing the bore with a brake cylinder hone so they fit a little better, or both. We're the only ideas I've had so far.
I found a one broken leaf in the spring pack so I'll be leaving that out obviously. Thoughts on 1 more? With reversing the spring and stock length shackles I'll go from a 4" drop over factory to around 1-1.5" drop over factory so it's coming up for now. I want the spring to still be strong enough but still drop further than the 1-1.5".
And I still need to drill the seatbelts holes. I'll use some 3/16" strap steel to give a little strength to the mounting location since it's just sheet metal. That shouldn't be too difficult though.
Comparing the old and new shackles
Old shackle sleeve was stuck in the bore on both sides. Ground a round file into a chisel tip with the point on the edge allowing me to get between the bore and the sleeve to get it out.
Spring out and the metal shields removed
Starting to clean up the old nasty grease
All clean and starting to dissassembled
Relieving the pressure slowly
Broken leaf as I found it
Messy work space pics
Anyway that's where I'm at with 8 nights left to work. I only go out after my kids go to sleep so I'm not leaving my wife out to dry with two sassy girls. Slow progress with only a couple hours a night but it's going alright.
I remember doing those shackle bushings on my stock '48. That job is a real bitch, lots of offensive words were used during that job. Be careful getting the new ones in, I had one bend the outer metal sleeve when it was half way in. Had to order another set. Make sure there are no burrs or rust to give you problems. They have to go in tight, use some oil to lube them on the way in. Lots of luck with it.
That's exactly why I'm expecting a second set today.
Reversed the spring last night. Using this thread from 2006 as a guide
I basically just did last what he did except the use a shop press instead of making my own jig. Went pretty well though it was hard to get in close to the spring eyes.
I reassembled the spring leaving out the broken leaf and one other leaf. I obviously had to leace out the one broken leaf but does snyone with experience with leaving springs out think that I will have any problems with leaving out 2. It's still out of the car and now would be the time to add a leaf back in if I need to.
Traced the original shape on the floor with tape.
Just starting to flatten out.
My rig. I just used a shop press, the green blocks get it up off the table and give some room to press the spring down without hitting anything. And then I used some round center punches to spread the load across the entire spring at once for even pressure.
Almost flat now
Finished. You can see where I had trouble getting into the corner by the eyes to get them bent but it's close and should work just fine.
I need to remove the shackle I messed up so I can install the new ones tonight then it's time to reassemble everything. I'm curious how low it will be in the front. It'll surely be higher than it was but still lower than stock. I wouldn't mind going back to longer shackles eventually just not as long as they were. I liked where it sat before but it needed to be fixed. We shall see.
Over the weekend I got the shackles replaced and the suspension reassembled. Set the car on the ground and it was way too low. Iy looked great but yhe panhard bar was hitting the sway bar mount with very little movement in the suspension. It wasn't going to work. I jacked it back up pulled out the panhard bar and the spring and set to fixing the issues. I heated and bent the panhard bar to hopefully give a little extra clearance to the sway bar and also dissassembled the spring and put one of the 2 leafs back in. Now the only leaf left out was the broken one. Reassembled everything and it seems to have worked. The panhard bar still hits when the suspension moves a lot so I need to figure that out better but I took it out and drove it a little bit and the major clunking that had been happening was now gone. Still chunks on the big bumps and I'm not sure if that's just the panhard or if the shock links are noisy they all look old and could be replaced but I'll have to look into those later. Now I just had the seatbelts to install before next weekends cars and coffee.
But those plans are on hold. We had some major and horrible news with my wife's pregnancy. The baby has Potter's Syndrome which is fatal. So I'll be dealing with that for a little while before even thinking of the car. Family first always. We will be going to Iowa City to the UofI medical center to have a procedure to terminate. It was a very hard decision for my wife and I. We are not the type that would normally do something like this. Regardless of your views it is what's best for us and our 2 and 4 year old. The added stress and likely pain of continuing the pregnancy for a no chance situation was just not worth whatever minutes we could get at the end. There is no chance of survival if we go full term as these babies usually only live an hour or two at most. I don't want to remember my third daughter by her struggle to survive an hour in our arms. As I type this now I'm getting emotional and I can't even imagine the next few days let alone years in our lives. It is not something one can just forget and move on too easily from. I know most of you probably don't think this needs to be posted here but I also know a lot of you are parents and although I don't actually know many people from here, the car community has always felt like home to me. Thoughts and prayers are appreciated but not necessary. We will get through. I just felt I needed to write this down somewhere that wasn't facebook. For some reason I feel ok telling a bunch of gearheads I don't know.
LOL I found where the vin used to be on my A, can't make out any numbers so they will have to be freshened before inspection.
Congrats on finding the vin, it was work I am sure but work worthy of investing.
What a tough decision to have to make. I personally think you made the wise one. I cant imagine the emotions that go along with that. Will be waiting for you to get past that grief and back on your car. Hang in there, time will heal.
What a sad situation to be in. I'm confident the H.A.M.B. community understood your feeling the need to put your grief into words here. Prayers for you and your family..
Prayers for you and your family.
Prayers for your family, Bless you all.
Redzula -- No apologies necessary for posting what you're going through. Your situation is unfathomable to most of us here. The decision is yours and your wife's, and no one else's opinion matters. Good thoughts and prayers are headed your way. Hang in there through this difficult time, and get back to this community when you can. Godspeed.
Thoughts and prayers, sir.
Man that's fucking rough. No way around that one, I'm sorry man I really am.
I sent you some photos via pm of the belts but don't know if you saw them. On your pan hard bar issue Ive got something for you to look at/ try.
The dog bones that connect the lever arm shocks -mine had them yours may have had tubes already- and the dog bones that hold the sway bar to the axle are a couple inches different in length but interchangeable. im not sure where your getting interference but maybe that helps. When I dropped mine I went to shorter ones to make up for some of the drop
I've got tube shocks the stock sway bar and pan hard bar all playing nice on mine with a reverse spring and dropped axle. Post a photo of your interference and I'll see what is going on on mine to compare/contrast
Thoughts and prayers are with you, brother. Nobody should have to make a decision like that. So sorry, man
Thanks guys. Everything went well my wife is feeling fine now physically but we're both going to be dealing with it emotionally for a while.
I'll have to look to make sure but I believe the panhard is making contact at the sway bar mount to the frame. There was a mark there when I took it all apart and I heat bent it out and around but as you probably know you can't bend it much or it'll throw the length off. I'll have to look more closely at the sway bar end links and shock links. To see if I'm mistaking the interference for something going on there. Just need to get back out and take a look haven't had a chance yet for obvious reasons.
I also got your PM about the belts which gave me a better idea where to locate the outside most point into the wheel well hump. I think I might take the extra 2 weeks now until the next C&C to pull the carpet and put some dynamat ish stuff down to hopefully help with the fuming im getting in the cabin. Its not too noticible driving it but you stink more than my wife and kids will want to after even a short drive
I used some rubber backed roofing flashing from the hardware store to "dynamat" my dad's camaro a few years ago. People say it smells when it gets hot in the summer but a couple years on and I've never smelled it once in the camaro. So it should work for this car too. And hopefully I can cover whichever hole the fumes are getting in through in the process. Not sure if I'll get out tonight or in the next couple days but soon. It'll be nice to get away for a bit and clear my head I just need to make sure I'm there for her to grieve properly too.
Maybe it's too much but here is my daughters foot prints. We've named her Sawyer.
I always thought my quarter window regulators were messed up but I took off the side panel to start pulling the carpet and this seems like it works smoothly. Is this how they're supposed to work where they go from down to up then slide back a few inches? I've never seen the operation of another one to know if mine are wrong it just seemed like it was going to fall off track so I never opened them again haha.
Yup that's how they work, sometimes refered to as "smoking windows" they make for some awesome cross ventilation. Slide it back a bit and pop open the vent Windows and you've got a clearest breeze with out the road noise of having the Windows all the way down!
Sent you a not very glamouros shot of my pan hard etc. I have no idea how it would hit anything so hopefully looking at it you can see what's out of place on yours
I looked last night the panhard bar is pretty close to the sway bar mount at ride height. So that's probably part of it but also it looks like the swing of the sway bar would also hit the shock body of the lever shocks. I tried tightening the shocks up a bit but haven't driven it yet. I want to switch to tube shocks in the somewhat near future which should take care of that part and I might need to recent or make a new panhard bar that clears up front.
For now though I started back out at the shop by taking out the seats, carpet and side panels so I could get to work installing seatbelts and sound deadening. The floors seem to be in really good shape. There seems to be a little rusting happening in the drivers foot area mainly in the corner of the removable inspection panel. Nothing through just seems to bulge a bit in that area. When I install the deadner I'm going to split where the inspection panel does so I can still remove it easily if I ever need to in the future.
I spent a little time. Chopping up a 3' strip of 2" x 3/16" strap steel to use with the seatbelt bolts to add some strength. I cut them down to 4" lengths and will use one on each bolt. Still debating weather or not to weld the seatbelts nut to the plate and/or to weld the plate to the underside of the floor it would make installing much easier without having to have a helper under the car to tighten them.
I promise to take more and better pictures when I'm out there again probably tonight.
That is a great looking old car. Something you and your family can enjoy for years. I really feel for you and your family, I hope you guys are doing well.
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