Register now to get rid of these ads!

1946 Huck Brakes...one thing leads to anoter...

Discussion in 'The Antiquated' started by TraditionalToolworks, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    And the next thing you know, you have the entire wheel assemblies ripped off and working on them...:rolleyes:

    When I bought my truck a couple months ago, I just got most of the registration done, but the brakes didn't work and I can't get it to the scale to be weighed or the DMV to get the VIN verified. I am paid in full, so no worries there and not driving the truck on the street...

    Like everything 72+ years old, bolts and nuts are rusted, everything is covered in clay and mud on the underside, one side I couldn't get the bleeder screw off even using a torch to heat up the plate/cylinder around the valve after I removed the tire and line...no go, but I got it all disassembled.

    chevy-brakes-fugly-04.jpg

    One side had a completely disintegrated shoe and the other fell on the ground when I finally got the cylinder loosened pulled it open.

    chevy-brakes-pad-fell-off-02jpg.jpg

    I brought everything home to clean up and refurbish, I stripped one castle nut with my impact, one bleeder valve is still stuck, and I don't have any shoes. Drums don't look too bad, I'll need to measure them. No big lip on them, I think they can be reused.

    Since it's a '46 it was originally shipped with caged bearings. I'd like to upgrade them to roller bearings, but I can always do that later. and the bearings don't look bad at all. Plenty of grease in them, but one hub cover was missing also...:(

    chevy-brakes-pdrum-08.jpg chevy-brakes-ddrum-09.jpg
    chevy-brakes-pshoes-07.jpg chevy-brakes-dshoes-06.jpg

    I'd like to upgrade to Bendix, but I can think about that later. I would be more inclined to upgrade to a T-5 trans before that, but I have plenty to do even before I get to that point.

    Any tips on where to get good shoes? Anyone grind them around the SF Bay area? I need to check that out...I have most of the parts, I have new brake lines, springs (only 1 per side on the fronts), and all hardware. Master cylinder was upgraded by the previous owner, so it has a dual reservoirs for front and rear. Would be nice if I could take my drums to someone that could turn them and grind the shoe arc for them, anyone know a shop that will do that?
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  2. I got lucky on my 1950 3100 with Huck brakes and a very old Western Auto store in town went out of business and I got front and rears for something like $15.00 a set. Look on Rock Auto, they show some for your truck.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  3. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    I was planning to do the brakes, so bought some rebuild kits from Rock Auto. I actually bought 2 x 1-1/4" wheel cylinders off ebay, knowing I was going to do them...just didn't plan on doing the shoes and drums and taking everything apart...oh well, I'm not working right now so I have the time...

    I'd like to find someone that can turn the drums and arc grind the shoes, I know there are people that do that. I've been told that Chuck's Brakes in Santa Rosa does it, and I do drive through there as I have a piece of property not far from there. Maybe I could drop them off in the morning and pick them up in the evening on my way back home...:cool:

    Timing is not bad for that, I have a permit box I need to take up to the property to post the building permit. I'll give Chuck's a call, but somewhere closer to south bay would be preferable. There is a place in Cupertino that does some of that stuff, I will check on that tomorrow.

    I'm pretty sure the drums and pads are done together when they arc grind the shoes, but not positive on that. IOW, the drums need to be turned first so they can match the arc. I like the idea of not having to "break in the arc" myself over time. Of course not needed, but some of those places can use older asbestos type material, not that it is good, but I have heard the newer material doesn't stop as well. Any thoughts? I have heard the newer material can be ground also, so will ask about both when I talk to either of these guys.

    EDIT: I live about 5 minutes away from this place...but have never talked to them. They do classics and they do full brake service, so I will see tomorrow...

    https://www.clarksauto.com/

    EDIT2: Clark's Auto in Cupertino doesn't do the old drums or reline shoes. No arc grinding. There is a place in San Jose that does arc grinder, Bay Shore Friction, but they will not do any asbestos and require a msds with any material supplied.

    Chuck's Brake in Santa Rosa will arc grind any material and can get NORS liner to use.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  4. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    This dilemma seems to be cropping up more and more, just like everything else...some things are impossible to get that are made in America anymore.

    This has never been more true for many bearings and seals. I ordered some Timken bearing seals for my lathe and they were imported. So even companies that were traditionally made in America are shilling us nowadays...:(

    I was thinking about upgrading my caged bearings for my '46 pu from the front wheels with roller bearings. This is said to make driving at highway speeds nicer, but I know some people that have the old caged bearings and say they can tolerate them.

    These bearings and seals are being sold by a variety of vendors that sell parts for old trucks. The prices are all over the map.

    The Filling Station has a front end kit for $190. Jim Carter has what appears to be the same kit for $120. A number of them sell the bearings and seals separate at a higher price as well. Every single one of them said the bearings are made in China. Ok, I get it, we can't get US product nowadays...but I found a guy on ebay, he sells the kit for both front wheels, inside and outside bearings and the seals for $57. He says these are the only bearings manufactured for this purpose, and they all come from the same factory in China, which is HL.

    Some vendors supply the older style flat seal with the newer taper bearings and it is said that doesn't work. Anyway, what would you do if you were going to buy taper bearings? To me it all looks like the same product also...:rolleyes:

    I can tell you what I did...I ordered the kit for $57...o_O
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    I posted in the wanted forum, but just in case some passing in here might see this and not the post there, I would be interested in buying Bendix plates, drums and mounting hardware from a '51-'59 chev pickup front end, if anyone took theirs off to upgrade to disc.

    If you have any or all of the hardware to upgrade the hucks on the front end of my '46 to Bendix, now is the time I'd like to consider that.

    I ran into a small problem in that one of my huck brakes doesn't look to have rivet holes. I believe this could be for a bonded brake, rather than the riveted on type. The pad was disintegrated, but there is no holes for rivets.

    I would consider huck shoes that do have the rivet holes in them, and in that case I have all the parts I need. But the Bendix upgrade would be nice to do while I have everything apart. If you have either Huck shoes (don't need liners even, just need the shoes) or Bendix plates, drums, shoes, hardware...ping me. Primarily looking for front end.
     
  6. lowrd
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 240

    lowrd
    Member

    I believe somewhere on this site there was a thread about using bendix assemblies from a 53 Chev sedan on the truck spindles. One benefit was the 5 lug bolt pattern from the sedan if used. I used my old set on a 40 Chev sedan and had excellent results.
     
  7. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    Not really a benefit for me, I currently have 6 lug with radials. Seems I would need to get new 5 lug wheels. Is the advantage larger lugs? I think the lugs are 7/16" on the 6 lug. They're pretty small, IMO. In fact I need to replace a few as they are cracked around the end taper edge, they still work however, but I'm pretty OCD about replacing crappy nuts and bolts. They will only cause more problems in the future.
     
  8. I put bendix brakes on my '40 . You are on the right track looking for AD or Task Force truck items .

    I am not sure what you are to do for the rear brakes as I have a '56 pickup diff .
     
  9. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    Do you know if the one piece 6 lug hub/drum will work on the Bendix plate? I'm trying to understand what I would need to do, or if it's possible, to use 6 lug hubs with the '51-'59 brake plates/shoes???

    For right now I don't plan to change the rears. I have a dual reservoir master cylinder and was planning to leave the fronts and rears separate and leave the Hucks on the rears. I wasn't planning to change my rear end out and already have a 3.55 ring/pinion to put in the rear end I have.

    I believe it's possible to mix the brakes with bendix on the fronts and hucks on the rear, isn't it?
     
  10. I used a '46 front axle (bigger king pin than the '40) and '54 front hub assy , complete. The Bendix shoes are 2" and the huck 1 3/4" So I am happy to have the slightly better braking . I did this because the '56 diff is already bendix .

    I have 6 stud as original .

    I cannot advise on mixing bendix and huck. It is not something I would do.
     
  11. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    I found a complete '53 car axle with brakes and drums that a generous fellow in NorCal is going to give to me. I will figure out what I need to do.

    Does this mean I would need to adapt the Bendix to the rear also? My plan had been to put the Bendix on front and leave the rears with Hucks.

    Wouldn't the proportional valve allow you to adjust them? I have a dual reservoir master cylinder that goes through a proportional valve.

    In the meantime until I get that axle and get the upgrade planned out, I'll use my Huck brakes on the front when I get some shoes I ordered last night. Please do tell more about why you wouldn't mix the Bendix and Hucks.
     
  12. With a non standard master cylinder , I cannot help. I don't know about proportioning valves.

    The bendix are "self energizing" and work with less pedal pressure , is why I kept them evenly positioned on my truck , just like the stock AD and Task Force trucks .

    I just chose not to re-invent an important safety device .
     
  13. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    What did you do for the rears? The Bendix plates are not compatible with the '36-'50 Hucks. You must have replaced your rear end or fabricated the Bendix plates to your axles???

    FWIW, I found a '53 car axle with brakes and drums that a guy I know is going to give me.
     
  14. The '56 truck diff is already bendix brakes .
     
  15. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    I've been told you can mix Bendix on the fronts and Hucks on the rears. I think I'm willing to try it and see how it drives. To be honest, this is the first time working on drum brakes in years, not trying to kill myself, but need to look into that more.
     
  16. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,666

    khead47
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You can use adhesive backed sandpaper on the drums to manually arc the shoes. Slow, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do !
     
  17. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    I probably would have tried that but left my drums and old bonded shoes at a local shop befor I left for Japan a couple weeks ago...returning on Sunday to pick them up...the are arc grinding them to the drums.

    I will only be using these hucks for a short while as I found some Bendix drums, plates, shoes and even spindles if I want them, but think my spindles will work. The Bendix parts are from a ‘53 pickup.
     
  18. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    I left these drums at a local shop and they relined the shoes and arc ground them to the drums. They said the drums look good and didn't want to turn them as they measure about 11.300" I'm going to remeasure them at home. For anyone keeping tabs at home, to get these relined and arc ground was $136.50

    Not cheap but I'm going to have them do my Bendix shoes after I get the parts.

    I'm waiting for parts to convert over to Bendix and have a contact of someone that wants my Hucks, so hopefully it's a wash for everyone. My plan is to wait until I have all the parts. I have all the part to get everything put back together with Hucks for the time being, but also it's raining and I have a couple road trips coming up.

    I should also add, a local Napa told me these were one piece and they couldn't turn them, but the local brake liner said these hubs will come up using a press. At least I know I can use these hubs, they were the ones on the current spindles. Never pressed lugs out, but that won't stop me...:rolleyes:

    I think the problem is that the drums need to be setup for 5 lug or 6 lug, so even though I can use my current hubs, I don't think I can use them on passenger car drums, is that correct can anyone verify?

    drums-new-shoes-arc-ground.jpg

    I know how excited you HAMBsters get when you hear the words, "Extra Credit", so I'm offering an extra credit question.:eek:

    I was thinking that if you have a 6-lug truck hub, you could use it on a 5-lug passenger drum, but in looking the pattern over it doesn't seem that would be the case. I see no other way to get a 5-lug pattern, short of using an adapter plate between the 2 different patterns, *OR* having holes in both the hub and drum for both patterns. Either way, my question is if I find 5-lug passenger drums with 6-lug truck hubs? Beuller? Beuller?

    The other side.

    chevy-6-lug-drum.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  19. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Cosmo49
    Member

    FWIW, you don't need Bendix. I have put over 100,000 miles on a personally ALL-HUCK brakes driven daily driver '49 Chevy 1/2 ton. I have been through two sets of shoes and you may be offended or not but, I didn't freak out as you seem to have written above by 'grinding the shoes'. It is wise to turn the drums IF necessary. You are also drinking that 'Roller Bearing Kool-Aid'. Over 100,000 miles my ball bearings were perfect.

    Now the story gets real interesting... Two years ago I changed out my front HUCKS to Bendix brakes WITH tapered roller bearings. WHY? Because it is so much cheaper! I presently have Bendix in front and Huck in the rears. Stops just like it did before. I do have a '57 3.90 open drive truck rear end with Bendix brakes I will be installing this spring.
     
  20. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    Cosmo,

    You're absolutely right about not needing Bendix, I couldn't agree more, but as you concluded, just as I have...they cost about the same to maintain and the roller bearings are cheap. In fact, I'm just waiting for the Bendix to install the roller bearings, the Hucks are going back on with ball bearings in cages. :p

    I like the design of the Bendix a lot better. Main problem on the Hucks seems to be the wheel cylinders get stuck. Just seems that Bendix was a better mouse trap.

    Anybody know if 5/6 lug hubs need specific drums? Seems at some point one drum would support both, but I think it happened sometime in the late '50s.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  21. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Cosmo49
    Member

    Alan,
    This statement is FALSE..."Main problem on the Hucks seems to be the wheel cylinders get stuck."
    Hucks are great brakes, they just need patience to adjust as you have two adjustment points vs one on the Bendix. I adjusted mine twice a year for twenty years and got PERFECT WEAR patterns on all shoes. I am a self-taught mechanic.
    The advice from me you are not looking for...Run the Hucks and let the Bendix come to you. They will. Stockpile your Bendix items, fresh shoes, hardware, re-sleeve or hone wheel cylinders as necessary, AND THEN do the conversion. This 5 lug 6 lug is just dog do do.
     
  22. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    Cosmo,

    Talk to me about 2 adjustment points. Since the Hucks pivot on a single point, can you clarify that statement? Seems to me that when the Hucks expand, they pivot on a single point and as such is limited by the amount of liner making contact with the drum.

    I have been planning to do exactly as you state, use the Hucks and gather the parts for the Bendix.

    I'm heading up to post a building permit and meet with a foundation contractor to talk about my next house foundation...here's my 'ol '46 waiting for the Hucks to be put on...and there's the log house that will hopefully be moved onto a foundation soon...

    I'm stopping by Napa to pick up a '51 Chevy front axle, will be using some of the Bendix parts on my truck.

    1946-chevy-still-standing.jpg
     
  23. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Cosmo49
    Member

    There's no easy way with Huck, they are a bit more labor intensive. Tighten either shoe until it drags slightly, then do the other. Get a shop manual, get dirty, pay your dues, pass on the knowledge.
     
  24. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    No worries there. I will put these Hucks back together as I gather the rest of the Bendix parts. I have a fair amount of stuff I need to get, I don't have any rebuild kits, no hardware kits, will *probably* need shoes and/or relines. I have new brake lines, and new bearings. I don't know if the bearings will fit the Bendix drums. In theory if the drums are interchangeable, my hubs with the new bearings should be fine. I'm just not sure the Huck hubs can be interchanged with the Bendix drums. I picked up a '51 passenger car axle. Those plates will work on my '46, so at minimum there is hardware to convert over a truck, sans the hubs/drums. I should add, if someone had some 5-lug wheels, this would be just the ticket.
     
  25. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Cosmo49
    Member

    The above is wrong. I meant to say there are two adjustment holes. Choose either one to start. Tighten (shoes are going OUTWARD toward the hub) till you have slight drag. Standard brake adjustment procedure. Then do the other adjustment hole. Done. Since I'm spending all that time down on each location I bleed the brakes at the same time. I use Speed Bleeders.
     
  26. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    Ah, ok I know what you mean now. Yes, I saw there is only one sprocket cap on the Bendix.

    This is what my huck plates looked like, this is caked on mud/clay that is hardened on...

    dirty-huck-plates.jpg

    I bought speed bleeders, but have only used them briefly on one wheel as I ended up taking all the brake parts including the plates, off the front end.

    semi-clean-huck-plate.jpg
    cleaned-up-painted-huck-plates.jpg
    Making some progress, but need to dig out all the $#!T cleaning in purple zep...
     
  27. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Cosmo49
    Member

    Good on you! You're doing it the right way. It's a lot of work but being able to stop with confidence is everything!
     
  28. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    Indeed it is Cosmo, could mean the difference between life and death.:oops: Driving these older brake systems requires paying attention...most all of them can lock the brakes up, the trick is to not lock them up.:)

    I don't know if I'm doing it right, I'm doing it though. LOL

    Tomorrow is a new day, or today is a new day, something like that...
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  29. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Cosmo49
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Alan, this is an older picture of me (red truck on the right) and some friends a few years ago.
     
  30. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 149

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    That's a fine looking pickup there Cosmo! And I'd say you keep in good company as well. I have always loved seafoam green. I'm pretty sure mine is painted with Rustoleum using a brush...:rolleyes:

    I think it's kept the rust at bay, if nothing else. ;)

    I can't believe it, I think I might be screwed tonight...I only have 4 x 1-1/4" pistons. There was a piston missing which behooves me...how can a piston disappear? I have to search the yard tomorrow if I can get there and it's dry enough, but I'm pretty sure there was only 1 on the frozen side...the kits I bought don't have pistons. I'll need to buy one online...to quote a wise man I once knew..."f#@$ me!". I might be able to turn one on the lathe, I've been looking for an opportunity to turn one.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.