The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Black Clover Custom, Dec 16, 2017.
Wow, them cab overs are pain in the ass overs........ha ha ha
Hey i'm going up your way to get a rebuilt motor for it... Langley area. hwy99 to 17. 4am take off saturday.
Do a cylinder leak down test. Listen to hear if the air leaks out the intake or exhaust valves, crank case or water jacket. That will tell you where the problem is. I agree it is not likely rings with 10 psi. A badly carboned intake valve or burned exhaust valve or potentially head gasket, cracked head or block.
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It is unfortunate that I live on Vancouver Island, and, just one way, it is about 6 hours travel by road and ferry to get there. I'll take a raincheck.
What is the motor you are going to use.
Found a 216 that was rebuilt recently in Portland OR. Guy bought it and put it in his 38 pontiac. Than took it out after 500 miles to rebuild his original motor after coming into some money he said. Has video of it running. And its the right price. Less than half of rebuilding one.
I have a question related to the 216. Did all the car and truck 216 motors have the dippers, or were the truck engines full pressure.
My understanding is, that the GMC engines and the larger Chevy truck engine was full pressure, but only the larger engines in Chevy trucks had the more modern design.
Gonna have to ask an expert. I have yet to crack this one open to find anything out relating to oil. But my guess is that the mains are pressure and the rest splash. I read something recently that said even babbit bearing engines had pressure at the mains. Not sure if any of that is true.
Thanks to Tony "the Britt" from Canada we now have a good motor! Gave me a ton of extra parts and info too!
So today I tried to put the distributor from the new motor in the old motor and i couldnt get it to line up to a terminal for spark plug #1. Kinda wierd but i guess each motor has its own distributor. I just wanted to see if the new one would make it run better. Feels tighter.
But side by side i found them to be clocked different! When all is equal and the notch for the rotor points up the new distributor shaft end is clocked to 11-5 (if you will) and the old one is clocked to 2-8 oclock. Have pics.
No matter how i twisted the distributor when it was loose it wouldnt let me set the points to just open at 5 degrees before tdc (just before the peak on the lobe) AND be pointing to spark plug #1. It only points inbetween any spark plug terminals. Twist to get it on a terminal and the points would be way off inbetween lobe peaks. (old distributor sets up perfect. points just open before being on the lobe peak tdc and pointing towards #1 spark plug terminal)
So i am really cleaning them both and putting them together greased to perfection. The weights are the same for the mechanical advance. Probably have the same springs but i can't check that. Both are stamped 31.
Best guess is that the car 216 and the truck 216 were different. may have read that somewhere. Think the truck 216 was different to get a bit more hp or torque than the car 216. Only worry is if the bellhousing bolt pattern is different from truck bellhousings to car. I would be stuck.
You can see in the pics the difference in how they are setup (clocked).
So Tony "the Britt" who i got this motor from said they all seem to have full pressure to the mains and cam journals along with the squirters up to about 53 54. But its still confusing to me. Will check with him.
I have been doing some reading on the subject, and found some tidbits. The 216s are all babbet engines, and according to the best information I could find, are all dippers. This is in contrast to the GMC engines, 228/248/270/302 series, which reportedly all have full pressure, but are longer.
The Chev 235, 261, 292 engines are also full pressure engines.
I know that in the later sixes, the truck engines used a gear drive to drive the cam, rather than a chain.
Another claim is that supposedly, the GMC engines also had a higher nickel content in the head/block, which made them more durable than the Chevrolet sixes.
I know one friend that installed a GMC 302 in a 47 Chev, and it would have been easier to install a V8. It sure sounded sweet.
Original coe high torque motors distributor is 1110090. The new motor as per Stovebolt guy is not a high torque. Just a regular 36-49 216 and its distributor is a 1112353. It will fit nicely.
Measured taking the motor out through the front over the crossmember and it will work. Just need to cut a 12"x12" piuece of the firewall to get clearance. Don't want to lift the cab off if i don't have to. Want to preserve the good old wiring and everything.
Getting ready to pull the engine this week. Lots of pics. Maybe start tonight.
You want to preserve the wiring, but are OK with cutting the firewall?
Haha. Yeah. "preserve" meaning i don't want to touch it or else i will have to replace it! Its good unless it gets moved around alot. It starts to come undone.
I just mean i may have to notch the center of the firewall a bit. I like welding better than wiring i guess
Heard today that the guy that used to own this truck has removed the engines on these without cutting anything. Comes right out of the front if you angle it up over the crossmember. Kinda like leap frogging it over he said.
It will come out one way or another.
Massive crack in the exhaust manifold that could not be seen from the outside. Going to try to weld it. Not easy.
The motor didnt have any room to come out so i cut the firewall a bit. Easy now.
Going to see about fixing the reverse lockout too. Can't find reverse without it fixed. Otherwise moved on its own power a little. Clutch worked and no noise from throw out bearing.
Time to pressure wash and get to the breaks.
Anybody have any success at welding cast iron manifolds?
I am getting some Castron rods that i read are the best for that weld and i will follow all the rules for preheating and slowly coolong down. Also they say to ping the welds every inch or so to relieve stress as you go. Should work out ok. Problem though is that its still cold here and i wish it weren't.
Oh well. Here we go. I do love to gas weld with oxy/a.
Just in case you do not know, once you do get it welded, you will have to bolt it and the intake together and have it machined as a unit to get them flat again. Best way to do it is a large belt grinder, it is tough to machine them on a mill.
When I first got my truck in my avatar in HS, I took them apart to clean everything up and when it wouldn't go back together and clamp flat on the head is when Dad told me. Of course I didn't ask before I took it apart either.....
You might have better luck brazing it than welding it. When cast iron is hot for alot of time (as a exhaust manifold or wood stove) the silicon and carbon in the metal gets oxidized, making it unweldable. Some cast irons aren't even weldable when brand new, and you really don't know before you try.
Cool. Good to know. I am going to try to find out what kind of cast iron it is and then make my decision. Been watching videos of manifolds being welded and NO ONE is saying they failed. I think only the successful attempts are being filmed and the botched jobs are being deleted. Haha.
I am thinking of drilling holes in some steel plate to bolt it to and weld it bolted to that. May have enough room to weld. May not since it is on the inside mostly. Will see.
So you took the truck apart without asking? Wow. Brave!
I welded some cast iron manifolds recently.
Cast iron Mig wire, no preheat welded excellet.
Downside is 80$ per 2lb spool..
Other people had success with tegulr weldng wire.
Brazing worked for me. To get some clearance between 331 HEMI and the R&P steering shaft, I cut the flange off the left-hand manifold at an angle that was pretty much guessed at. Then, re-positioned the flange by rotating it to get the ears in a better location and brazed it back together. Spotted it in a couple places, checked fit & clearance, then finished the brazing.
Threw it in a tub of Oil-Dry to gradually cool off. Fit up nicely.
Nice welding work. I am going with Nickel 99 rod. 16 bucks for 2 rods. Ouch. I will put it in my weber grill to cool down slow.
Got the intake and exhaust manifolds apart and cleaned up. Ready to weld but they are in the fire getting cleaned.
Transmission is out and i checked the reverse lockout. Works. Just the cable needs attention at the shifter. May need a new cable to work smoothly.
Old and new engines on wood to check old engine #3 cylinder problem. Head is off new one to check how clean the engine is and WOW its nice! Thanks Tony from Canada! Std pistons too! Can see hone marks on cylinder walls. Will use a new head gasket and paint it before going in the truck. Have to clean and paint all the stuff ffrom the old engine that is going on the new one.
The machine shop is checking the old cylinder head to see if it was the #3 cylinder valves that caused 10 psi. May be the rings. We will see. Going to fix that one to sell or to have for later because its the high torque 216. Work work work. Have to give my car more time!
Welding worked out great with a #2 tip and gas set at 5 ox and 5 ac. Ground smooth after and looks ok. I think i will use high heat epoxy over top to get it perfectly smooth.
You gotta tell me what kind of cast iron wire you used. I want to try it. Can't find any.
Crown alloys,royal 44-30
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