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Projects 1946 Chevy COE

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Black Clover Custom, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok. Working on a customers 46 COE that is like a time capsule. Original red in great shape and zero pieces missing. He wants it to run and stop and maybe go down the highway doin' 55 if possible. Gave me a 235 that was said to run if we needed it. Awesome truck.
    I checked the oil and its great. Has coolant in the radiator. Points look new. So i got a battery for it that fit the hole under the seat. Filled the tank with 7 gallons of clear gas to use and/or check for leaks. Shot starter fluid in the intake tube from the power break booster hose inlet. Saw it dripping out at the carb. Then i went to start it. Motor turns nicely but no bang. Checked for spark at points and plugs and it does not have spark. Bummer. So this is were i am with it.
    Question one is how do i check the generator to see if its good and the coil? Pretty much will go through all systems until i find what is broken. Problem is that in this COE i have barely enough room to stick a hand places. Don't want to start breaking old brittle wires and hoses ya know? So any diagnostic help would be appreciated. Still 6volt btw.
    Customer is ready for whatever it needs to get running. But don't want to waste too much of his time/wallet chasing gremlins. I am leaning towards remove and restore all needed. IMG_1439.JPG IMG_1441.JPG IMG_1445.JPG IMG_1446.JPG
     
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  2. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    Found that these old trucks have the wierd metal covered wire to the coil + end on the end of the coil. Its called a electrolock wire. It goes from the end of the coil up to a toggle switch in the center of the dash. You swing the switch left or right i guess to give it 6volts from the battery coming from a wire from the ignition switch or not. Super wierd why they would add that and not just use the ignition switch for power to the coil. I think thats the problem with this one not getting spark. Going to get a jumper wire from the battery + straight to the coil and see what happens today. Maybe it will fire. If not then i will change the coil first.
     
  3. ol-nobull
    Joined: Oct 16, 2013
    Posts: 839

    ol-nobull
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hi. hope that switch gets it going. That truck really has the WOW factor. That thing needs to park in my garage next to my little 46 Chevy Stylemaster Sport Coupe. Jimmie
     
    Black Clover Custom likes this.
  4. donno
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 264

    donno
    Member

    I grew up with Chevy trucks on the farm, ranging in years from 1938-1953. Never saw one with toggle switch / electrolock wire. But that was MANY years ago.
     
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  5. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    I will take a picture of the electrolock dash toggle and the coil with two positive terminals at rear and a ground at front next to the distributer wire boot. But WAIT, it has no boot! It goes right into the coil and does not unplug! Super wierd.
    So i have power at the primary and secondary coil pos wires at the rear of coil. Good ground on front. Cleaned points contact surface and now get a weak spark at points and even got a weak spark at the plug i borrowed from my 327 with its plug wire. Looks like a good tune-up with new coil will do the trick! I found a coil online that has the electrolock end on it but cant find one like this truck has on it with 2 pos terminals 1 neg without a boot (removable) distributer lead. So i am going to get a 6v coil from napa and hook it up like regular from the ignition pos or just jump it from the battery until the other gets here.
    Getting plugs, plug wires, coil, rotor and points. No cap available. Not throwing everything in at one time. Going to start with the plugs and wires first. Then condensor and then points and finally the coil. See what happens.
    My question would be if it has a primary and secondary pos wire... when i hook up the regular 6v coil do i just use the keyed ignition possitive to it and a distributor ground? Regular right? Don't worry about the primary, secondary wires right? Fyi the second wire to the original coil goes from the back of the coil to the top of the starter! Right smack in the middle of the starter. And not from the big starter connections. Extra weird. Gotta find a diagram of this truck man. Pics late tonight so someone can help me out with this crazy setup.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  6. choptop40
    Joined: Dec 23, 2009
    Posts: 2,718

    choptop40
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from houston tx

    That's a bitch....you're gonna get a step ladder for this one...and a big ass spot light
     
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  7. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    Hahaha Yeah i know.
     
  8. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok I was wrong. The second wire on the end of the coil by the electrolock goes to the distributor. Red wire. The other end of the distributor (black) wire goes to the starter.
    So funny that the parts store couldnt get me 10mm by 18 plugs... So i got home and looked at them and then grabbed my 68 327 plugs from my 41 merc project and they are the same! Well... 2mm longer but thats close enough. Put 6 on the motor and even used my 327 plug wires and tried to fire it off. Same. So getting a 6v coil tmrw. Test again after work.
     
  9. Chuck Craig
    Joined: Jun 11, 2016
    Posts: 169

    Chuck Craig

    Remember it has an updraft carb. and it may take some time to get the gas to flow, I would check it to make sure it has gas, spark and compression.
     
  10. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yup. Just wondered how to do that on this carb since i basically have to work on it from underneath. Zero room from up top to do anything to that carb because of all the clutch and brake linkage.
    May get a 6v inline fuel pump to help deliver gas to it.
    If strong spark is at the plugs after the tune up and no bang then the fuel pump and carb is next.
    Thanks for the help.
    Dont think the 235 he gave me will work with the 216 updraft intake setup. We will see... Really wish the 216 is good.
     
  11. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    Got the wires from a chevy 250 and cap, rotor, coil on it. Will put the condensor and points on tonight.
    Check out the old coil. It is oil filled.
    IMG_1450.JPG IMG_1451.JPG IMG_1452.JPG
     
  12. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,082

    southcross2631
    Member

    Just run a jumper from the plus side of the battery to the plus side of the coil . It should have spark. That's how I stole my brother's old chevy all the time.
     
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  13. Chuck Craig
    Joined: Jun 11, 2016
    Posts: 169

    Chuck Craig

    The pix look just like the set up in my 39 COE.
     
  14. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    Well, the electrolock works and the motor tried to fire with some starter fluid! But no fuel from pump and carb seems stuck inside somewhere. Going to get a fuel pump and remove carb to rebuild it. Not easy to remove these updraft carbs in this big truck. I need smaller hands.
     
  15. Chuck Craig
    Joined: Jun 11, 2016
    Posts: 169

    Chuck Craig

    When I first got my 39 running it took several days as I took out the spark plugs, oiled the cylinders, waiter several days and then used the hand crank to turn it over. I also never touched the gas pedal so as to not rupture the old accelerator pump before some gas got on it to soften it up. New plugs, points, condenser and it runs just a quite as can be. Brakes are another issue as I have not had the time to really work on them. You have to pull the rear axels to get the brake drums off so you can see the old style brakes.
     
  16. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    Sweet. Hand crank huh? Bet its a cool truck.
    I don't know what is wrong with this carb but we are gonna find out if i can get it off. The gas tank is empty and the lines are clear but maybe too much age got to the carb. Or varnish inside. The pump should be easy.
    Its fun working on an old truck this nice.
     
  17. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,139

    carbking
    Member

    XXL__ likes this.
  18. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
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    Black Clover Custom
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  19. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,139

    carbking
    Member

    Be very careful with the rebuilding kits. There are many different of the BB-1 updraft carbs, and also many different kits. The "one size fits all, works well on none, but is cheaper than dirt" philosophy can cause headaches down the road. Be especially cautious of the fuel inlet seat orifice. There are 4 different orifice sizes.

    Jon.
     
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  20. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    Good to know. Thanks.
    I got it off and it is in really good condition except for the fuel inlet jet was gummy and would not slide until i cleaned it. I see why it didnt let gas in. But i found Ace Automotive and Fuel Systems out of Santa Clara Ca. that have all the kits and will rebuild it for us and test it on an engine. Sounds good because even if i did a good job cleaning and rebuilding it i would not know for certain if it was a motor problem or my carb work. This way i rule out the carb permanently if the motor runs poorly. Also it is missing the stop screw at the (Accelerator Pump?) at the end of the plunger shaft mechanism. They would put one in.
    Next is rebuilding or buying a fuel pump. Cool shiny part on top is a Handy "veri speed" Governor! Want to remove that right? :)
    IMG_1455.JPG IMG_1456.JPG
     
  21. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    IMG_1457.JPG So i have a weird problem. The gas tank inner steel line that turns into the trucks outer fuel line to the carb is clogged. Tank did not have any fuel inside and the fuel lines on the outside are clean and clear. Made a quick sketch to show what i mean. So i took off the fuel level sender to look inside the top center hole. It is clean and clear. Poured 3 gallons of clear gas in it earlier and tank has no leaks. No rust. Peaked inside to see that it has a wall sectioning it off. Sloshing baffle i guess and you can see the tip end of the internal metal pipe (line) at the bottom front edge. Stuck a gas welding wire in it about 2" and nothing came out. Undid the fuel line on the outside and the brass elbow. Stuck a wire in that hole about 8" down and nothing. BUT its totally clogged. Pressurized the tank through the gas fill neck and nothing came out of the fuel line. Fuel tank filled like a balloon. Put air to the fuel line end and zero! Will not clear.
    So what could be clogging this tank? Also sucked on the fuel line to see if it would squeeze any out and nothing.
    My guess is varnish? But why none in the tank?
    Any ideas on what or how to unclog this?
    My only idea is to get a braided wire and spin it with my drill like a mini roto rooter until something happens. I only can get welding wire about half the length in there so maybe the clogg is further down. But im stumped. Clean tank with hidden clog.
     
  22. Chuck Craig
    Joined: Jun 11, 2016
    Posts: 169

    Chuck Craig

    Would try some stiff wire, but remember Gas will blow up. So watch the sparks. Can you get air to the line that comes out of the tank? If so take the gas cap off and put some low pressure to it. May want to put some carb cleaner in first and let it soak for a few minutes. Careful,careful
     
  23. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    Yup. Got some braided wire about the size of the line and am using the drill to turn it. It is dark brown foul smelling varnish!. Have to be carefull. Read on here that drano (lye) can eat the stuff up faster so i put some n the hole for over night. We will see if its easier to drill out tmrw. Going to drain the tank now and fill it with water to be safe.
     
  24. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    Got the tank cleared and put a fuel filter before the pump.
    Put on a new vacuum advance on it.
    got the carburetor back and installed.
    Fired up! But wait! She won't rev up and the distributor is not moving. Meaning it won't twist at all as if there is a vacuum leak somewhere. But i unplugged the wiper vacuum and the brake vacuum. Only vacuum line left goes right to the advance from the carb.
    But i did a compression check and cylinder 3 reads 10. 15 when i put oil in it. Other cylinders read 95, 110, 100, 110, 115.
    I was thinking of taking off the head to get the bad cylinder up and out and do a ring job on it. Hone the cylinder and see if that helps, but i looked at the freeze plugs and one is seeping. Oh well. Motor will just need to come out. He wants reliable so trying to put band aids here and there won't work in the end.
    Found a 216 in Canada for $1000 that is rebuilt and the seller has video's of it running in the car.
    Time to pack up and go up north.
    (engine ran really nice with no bad noises when at idle. just doesn't want to go past idle without a backfire and spits and spurts and trying to die.)
     
  25. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    The distributor mechanical advance plates were sticky. Took off the points plate and cleaned and greased them. It's not perfect yet but it now idles and revs up fine and the vacuum advance is now twisting the body of the distributor like it should. But the motor heats up fast like the thermostat is stuck. Whatever. Just wanted it to show me it can idle and rev up so i know the parts around the motor work well. Time for the motor swap. Woohoo. Customers excited.
    But i have to figure out a safe way to lift that cab over the motor. Pulleys on ceiling beams with a winch from down low? Its a tall cab and not enough room to lift with my lift.
     
  26. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    IMG_1473.JPG IMG_1469.JPG IMG_1464.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

  27. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,043

    greybeard360
    Member

    Next time you need to clear out a fuel line like that, use an old speedo cable core in a drill. ... A short section .... Too long and it will be a real hand full !!!

    Sent from my Moto G Play using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  28. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 3,885

    BJR
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Have you checked the low cylinder for a sticky valve? That is what it sounds like to me. Pull the valve cover and see if the valves in the low cylinder are moving the same as the others, and also if thy are the same height as the others. While you are at it check the valve lash also and re set if wrong.
     
    46international likes this.
  29. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 455

    Black Clover Custom
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    Thats what i wanted it to be! Too bad though. Valves check out good from the outside movement measurement and lash. Still could be a completely burned up valve edge, so when it comes out i am taking the head off to see. Fix whatever it is and sell the motor. Selling the extra 235 also.
    If he ever wants to swap in a v8 he said he would do the trans and rearend too. Just not yet. I told him not too do that to this truck or i would buy it from him before any modern swap. :)
    Moved on its own power today! But needs brake work. And i can't find reverse... 1st seems to be left and up.
     
  30. j-jock
    Joined: May 12, 2007
    Posts: 856

    j-jock
    Member

    I just love those 30s through 50s COEs. I would love to build one, but I know I have enough projects and don't have the time. I get a great kick out of looking at the imaginative approaches used in building these beautiful old trucks.
    Bob
     

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