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Projects 1941 Merc custom

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by Black Clover Custom, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 483

    Black Clover Custom
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    Bottom cover pieces are on and i also hammer shaped the corner of the front floor but wish now i had done that before it was tacked in place. Have to work on it some more or cut it out and redo it. Or lead it smooth later. Barely any room from underneath to help hammer.
    The left side i will shape and then weld it on.
    IMG_1211.JPG IMG_1212.JPG IMG_1214.JPG IMG_1213.JPG IMG_1215.JPG
     
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  2. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 19,803

    Jalopy Joker
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  3. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 483

    Black Clover Custom
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    So i have been doing as much research as i can do on rumble seats on original cars and its been fine until today. I found a shop (Macs) did a conversion from trunk to rumble on a 36 ford and they had alot of pics. All was good until i saw how he cut the rear rain gutter! So original rumble seat cars DONT have rear rain gutters? DANG!
    I need info on this...
    Not that i want to drive my car in the rain all the time, but if it gets washed the water will always go into the trunk space and always be behind the seat thats bolted down??? No way man. Has to be something that channels the water away back there right?
    (Macs) cut not only the rear but about 12 inches up the side channels from the back bottom just to clear the swing of the rumble hinge. Dont like it.
    Is my idea toast?
    Any help on how original rumble seat cars dealt with water would really be helpful. Thanks in advance.
    (although i recently saw some new car wash WIPES were invented. No water needed)
     
  4. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 483

    Black Clover Custom
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    Got the original floor in and started beating it back into shape. It was hit from the rear so the corner rain gutters and inner braces on each corner were bent mildly. But i beat on it heavily and just about got it straight. I am not using the corners of the floor but am making a pattern to add the bottom pieces to mine. But i am using the right corner brace.
    The rear roll pan seems too long by about 1/4" on my car but i used it to line things up on the new floor. Wont matter if its too long when i go to weld it on since im molding in the fenders and the trunk hatch. All will be smooth and one piece anyway.
    Floor is nice though. Cant wait to cut it and graft it in.
    IMG_1217.JPG IMG_1218.JPG IMG_1219.JPG IMG_1220.JPG IMG_1221.JPG IMG_1222.JPG IMG_1223.JPG IMG_1224.JPG IMG_1226.JPG
     
  5. Torchie
    Joined: Apr 17, 2011
    Posts: 927

    Torchie
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    In regards to your post about rain gutters on rumble seats.
    Every car I have ever seen with a rumble seat has a gutter or channel of some sort. Most look just like the channel that a trunk lid would have if the rubber seal was attached to the the lid and not the body portion of the trunk area
    You will need some where for the water to go. You may have to fabricate a drain channel with a drain tube at the bottom to direct the water and deposit it under the car.
    Hope this makes sense.
    Torchie
     
  6. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,301

    alchemy
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    If there was a regular gutter right under the bottom lip of a rumble lid, how would the lid rotate down and inward? I know for a fact that Ford coupes and roadsters from the beginning up through 36 did not have a trough right under the tail end of the rumble lid. The water went down to the floor and out some holes. There was a small tin lip on the floor to help guide the water, but not much. Everything got wet in there.
     
  7. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 483

    Black Clover Custom
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    Yup. Thats what i was afraid of... Torchie had an idea that i thought of also but i cant figure out how to do it around the pivot point... or were the body channel would meet the lid channel. Would still have to catch water and funnel it down through a tube.
    Dont like the idea of a wet trunk after washing the car all the time. I may put more thinkin time into thisand see how it can be done. Thanks for the info though.
     
  8. Torchie
    Joined: Apr 17, 2011
    Posts: 927

    Torchie
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    Agree with the issue of the bottom of the lid not being able to have a channel but these all look like they have some sort of channel going around most of the opening. ebay834873.jpg th.jpg 6184-Rumble-Seat-Driver-Side.jpg
    Even if it only went down to the pivot point then had some sort of drain with a tube going to outside the car, it would be better then nothing. Or since the issue will be when the lid is closed you could put a channel on the lower edge and sides of the lid up to the pivot but on the backside of the lid. And have ends on it creating a trough. It would go into the opening with the bottom of the lid would but be hidden from view when closed and you could still use a a flexible tube to drain it out side the car.
    Hope that made sense as well :)
    The other question is where is your pivot point going to be?
    Torchie
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  9. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
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    Yes exactly. Thanks for that.
    The pivot point is really down in the pivot of the hinge itself making the lid not have one really... the way the lid closes is really a swing (arc) up towards the body... guess i could have the two gutters (body/lid) meet with a rubber lip in between! Maybe thats the way to do this. Yeah the water in the lower gutter would pool down there so a rubber hose can drain it down.
    Thanks torchie. Thats what i will try to make work unless some other light bulb happens.
    Customs = problem solving (divided by beer).
     
  10. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 483

    Black Clover Custom
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    Found pics of a 34 at the34fordroadster.com.
    They called the metal curved piece at the floor with a channel in front of it a "water dam". That doesnt sound good to me!
    water dam.jpg yupper.jpeg yup.jpg got it.jpeg
     
  11. Torchie
    Joined: Apr 17, 2011
    Posts: 927

    Torchie
    Member

    That picture speaks for itself. Now we know why so many of these are rusted out down there.:)
    Torchie
     
  12. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 483

    Black Clover Custom
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    Cut out the trunk floor and grafted on the left lower piece from the new floor. Then i had to make the outer skin piece for the right side. using the original bracing for the edge. Think i will be able to finish welding it together and tacking it on tonight so that i can graft in the new floor over the weekend.
    IMG_1232.JPG IMG_1233.JPG IMG_1234.JPG IMG_1235.JPG IMG_1236.JPG
     
  13. Nicely done. I'm also enjoying the problem solving. The 34 pics you found show the way, now if you can improve on the design...:rolleyes:
     
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  14. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
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    Black Clover Custom
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    Well i will try :) but putting a blown flattie in a hotrod is improving on that design right? Haha
     
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  15. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
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    Black Clover Custom
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    got the right side lower end piece in and cleaned up the trunk floor left and right edges on the body. then cut the floor and have it mocked up to see if it all goes in good. with the roll pan mocked up it looks like i need to raise the right side a bit but it will all work out. tack it in tmrw.
    IMG_1238.JPG IMG_1240.JPG
     
  16. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
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    Black Clover Custom
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    Got the trunk floor in and the corner braces and the rollpan. Checked it with the trunk lid on and the rear fenders and it lines up BETTER than before for some strange reason! Oh and for those lookin to buy the EMS metal parts...i was wrong. the rollpan was perfect. Not off by 1/4 inch. My mistake.
    So now will go around the whole car making any liitle rust patch and filler piece anywhere i have a gap. The fun never stops :(
    IMG_1244.JPG IMG_1241.JPG
     
  17. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
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    Black Clover Custom
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    IMG_1245.JPG IMG_1247.JPG IMG_1250.JPG IMG_1251.JPG Ok. Couple of big filler pieces made. The trunk hump piece is almost in. Bit more work on the corners after its tacked in. Both pieces came off of my 55 buick 4dr parts car. Top rear quarter and top front fender. Just bent a lip on the tail piece.
    Getting close to the chop! Maybe 2 weeks.
     
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  18. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 483

    Black Clover Custom
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    So any of you guys followed the Jesse Lopez recreation thread? It's one of my favorites. But i have a question about that chop...
    When he did the chop he did it like Jesse did back in the day and sliced long cuts on either side of the rear window...
    Best way to do that in my book, but do you always cut the rear window in the middle horizontally when doing that chop? Or did he do that because he was using a roof from another car?
    Just wondering if Jesse back then used the whole rear window or if he too cut the rear window down.
    Thanks for any help on this.
    Another chop i liked was the red 41 ford in California that the guy just slid the rear roof/window/sail piece forward... Know that one? Easy chop that way but it left a big rear window and longer looking trunk.
    I may do a combo of those two.
     
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  19. phat rat
    Joined: Mar 18, 2001
    Posts: 4,195

    phat rat
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    One thing to keep in mind is that the rear window isn't a straight piece it has a curve to it.
     
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  20. mlagusis
    Joined: Oct 11, 2009
    Posts: 884

    mlagusis
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    I am not sure if rear glass was tempered in 41...i would not cut and change the size of the rear window opening. i would weld temporary x braces to the window frame, then cut it out of the roof, chop it and re position it to follow the desired slope/profile, then make new sail panels or reshape what is there already.
     
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  21. The Lopez clone/tribute was chopped the way the original was done - by cutting through the rear window opening. I believe the Barris' and others began to lean the window forward after that (finding it much easier). I'm not sure which red coupe you refer to, but leaning the rear window should not make the trunk area appear any longer (perhaps the red one was a short door which has a longer appearing trunk area to begin with?). I'm with mlaqusis in suggesting the leaning forward approach rather than cutting through the window opening and adding more work to the job.. JMHO.

    Dave

    p.s. Here's a look at mine during the stripping period of the re-build (rear window area leaned forward):
    Screen Shot 2017-06-16 at 11.26.40 AM.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  22. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
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    Black Clover Custom
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    Cool. Yeah i think i will lay the window down.
    The red 41 is the thread... 41 ford bussiness coupe chop. Feb 2010. 5" chop. I like the car alot and the chop he did looks extra easy but tell me what you think about the rear window. Thanks. Will post pics of it.
    41 chop 2.jpg red 41.jpg
     
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  23. That is a really nice looking chop! You can see that it being a short-door, it already has a longer "cat walk" beneath the rear window making the trunk area appear longer than that of the sedan coupe (which mine is).. I don't recall whether you have the long or short version, but both look great with the correct chop. I do think it's wiser in the long run to avoid cutting through the window area. What you've done so far tells me you'll get it right when the time comes!

    Dave
     
  24. Torchie
    Joined: Apr 17, 2011
    Posts: 927

    Torchie
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    rodandcustomdreams is giving you the correct scoop on the Lopez reproduction. Jesse was also a long door.
    The original had a plexi glass rear window I believe. So did the reproduction until Jer found out that it couldn't handle the Texas sun. I believe he said that he was having a glass one cut for it.
    The Lopez coupe had what was considered a "Hard " chop for it's time. The windshield height is not very tall. 8" I think. Visibility out of it was/is not great and Jer had to really cut down the front seat to even see out of it.
    The chop was done in what used to be called the strip style. The area on either side of the rear window was cut into vertical strips as well as cutting thru the rear window. That way you didn't need to fab up new sail panels. Doing it that way seems to give the rear roof area more of a hump then leaning down the rear window.
    Agree with Dave on the you getting it right part.
    Looking good.
    Torchie
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  25. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
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    Mine is the long door also. And by the way your car looks perfect.
     
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  26. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 8,382

    Atwater Mike
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    If still doing a rumble seat, any thought as to how the rear window will roll down to talk to the passengers?

    Please don't do it... Just 'resist'.
     
  27. rustythumb
    Joined: Nov 24, 2008
    Posts: 71

    rustythumb
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    i believe all the '41-'48 rear windows are tempered.
     
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  28. Torchie
    Joined: Apr 17, 2011
    Posts: 927

    Torchie
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    Just walked out to my stash to look at a 41 Ford rear glass. rustythumb is correct that it is a single layer glass. So tempered.
    Sorry for the mis-information and I will edit my comments accordingly. That may explain why it has never bubbled. LOL
    Is it possible that the re-produced ones coming in from offshore are laminate. I know that some other rear glass that used to be tempered only is being reproduced in laminate now.
    Torchie
     
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  29. Black Clover Custom
    Joined: Dec 20, 2014
    Posts: 483

    Black Clover Custom
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    Leaning away from rumble seat.
    But it would be cool to make a window that cranks horizontal with twisting a knob... Or VW style popout window from the bottom. Haha.
     

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