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Customs 1940 mercury center grill piece - who has 1 I can borrow?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by CaseyK, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. CaseyK
    Joined: Jan 27, 2004
    Posts: 386

    CaseyK
    Member

    I have a center, but I think it's a repop, quality is kinda poor. I want to know if someone is willing to either take some really good pix of the front and back - like take it off and take some measurements too. Or let me borrow it so I can 3D scan it. I'm going to peak my hood and I want to remove the finger catch indentation and run the peak all the way up to match the hood. I already scanned the one I have, I just want to see how different the repop is to the original.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks, Casey
     
  2. Eyeball does... he owes you doesn't he?
     
  3. troylee
    Joined: Jul 10, 2007
    Posts: 683

    troylee
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have one if you need it. I would have one on hand, I also can take pics. troy
     
  4. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 9,318

    50Fraud
    Member

    If you're going to re-cast a repop, or CNC one from scratch for your ride, I'd be interested in acquiring one too. Please let me know if that would be possible.
    TIA
     
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  5. CaseyK
    Joined: Jan 27, 2004
    Posts: 386

    CaseyK
    Member

    The plan is to scan it, build the new 3D geometry - minus the hood latch hole, etc, but exactly like the original. Get an SLA prototype made, fit it up adjust anything I need to, make a silicon mold to pour wax parts, then take the waxes and have them cast, most likely out of brass. Pending cost of the casting, etc, I'll have some to sell. Who would be interested in something like this?
     
  6. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 9,318

    50Fraud
    Member

    I am, definitely!
     
  7. low49
    Joined: Aug 3, 2007
    Posts: 295

    low49
    Member
    from 209and408

  8. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    Holy shit!
    3D geowho, SLA Protowhat!
    how did good old Nick Matranga get things done up front way back in the good old days?

    Hey wait a second...if i sent you pics (or you could dig out the ones you already have) of my genitals & give you dimensions could you do the same thing for me?
    Well think about it anyway would ya.

    This shit really is a fuckin lifestyle brother!

    P.S. here is a little math for you....
    Saturday Nite + CheaterJacks house + Go Kart = Someones gettin arrested!

    I love you.

    Cheatercarl
     
  9. troylee
    Joined: Jul 10, 2007
    Posts: 683

    troylee
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here is a pic of mine that is filled. still needs some fine tunning. Have some more repairs on the grilles and need to get some more front end body work done. then the mock up will start
     

    Attached Files:

  10. redo32
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,477

    redo32
    Member

    You do know that cast parts shrink. Maybe 11%. Also cast out of bronze not brass. Much easier to tig weld the inevitable casting flaws. We had a customer that made a "57 Vette roadster, no door posts. He filled the recess in the w/s post & had several sets cast, Had to cut three posts to make one stretched one. Lots of hand work, turned out great.
     
  11. roadkillontheweb
    Joined: Dec 28, 2006
    Posts: 1,379

    roadkillontheweb
    Member

    If you get a good clean straight original you can skip all of the scanning and building a prototype in order to make the silicone molds. Just fill in the finger hole with clay and make your silicone molds to cast your wax masters for casting. remove the excess wax from the backside of the wax masters prior to casting to decrease excess thickness in the cros section that can exagerate the shrinkage in that area.

    Are you going to sand cast or investment cast? I would recommend investment casting if possible for the much finer finish quality.

    If you do the scan an build a prototype with SLA you might as well adjust for the shrinkage of the material in the digital format prior to building up the prototype.

    What was the original material used to make them? Steel? pot metal?
     
  12. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    Pot Metal I do believe.

    Cast of pot metal
    like a 41 Ford grille.

    love it,

    cheatercarl
     
  13. roadkillontheweb
    Joined: Dec 28, 2006
    Posts: 1,379

    roadkillontheweb
    Member

    You could use the silicone rubber molds to make the wax masters for lost wax investment casting and cast them in modern Zinc (Zamak) that is more internally stable than the original pot metal. cast several at a time at your local art casting foundry. Investment casting provides high detail with minimal finish work required prior to plating.

    There are a number of good videos on youtube that cover lost wax casting processes. If you remove the finger recess be sure and take away the backside also to keep thickness to a minimum as this will cause depressions in the castings because of shrinkage in thick areas. This is why potmetal is cast with hollow backs because making it thick will not help you.

    Can anyone give me the overall dimensions of the piece in question? if it is short enough it could be reproduced with centrifugal rubber mold casting using vulcanized rubber molds. I had the 57 Desoto fender birds done in that fashion and they were very well detailed and ready to go to the plater straight out of the mold.
    http://www.tekcast.com/i16//information.html
    There was a manufacturer in Wisconsin that would do 50 piece runs of parts at reasonable prices

    Here is a youtube video showing the process using pewter but it is the same for zinc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH4o1uDZrYM this process can be used for lots of smaller cross section originally die cast parts rather than building hard tool dies
     
  14. roadkillontheweb
    Joined: Dec 28, 2006
    Posts: 1,379

    roadkillontheweb
    Member

    Here are the fenders birds I had made in zinc using the vulcanized rubber molds in a centrifugal mold caster. The company in Wisconsin made a 50 Piece run for me at a very reasonable cost. I will have to look up their name?

    The body is chrome and the heads are gold plated and could be plated with no additional finish work needed right out of the mold. I sent a NOS piece that was used to make the mold and was returned unharmed.

    I should make another run because I sold every set I had made
     

    Attached Files:

  15. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    This is getting pretty high tech...
    SO once again I must ask....

    how did good old Nick Matranga get things done up front way back in the good old days?

    I'm just asking.
    Cheatercarl
     
  16. CaseyK
    Joined: Jan 27, 2004
    Posts: 386

    CaseyK
    Member

    You know his brother, why don't you ask him!
     
  17. roadkillontheweb
    Joined: Dec 28, 2006
    Posts: 1,379

    roadkillontheweb
    Member

    Back in the good old days these pieces were easier to come by. And if you are looking to produce more than one than you enter into a whole new arena on how to do things over just fixing one piece. If you are going to go through the work to reproduce a piece you might as well be prepared to produce a bunch of them for other people to.

    Most of the work I do is plastic casting and vacuum forming replacement parts
     
  18. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    I really do get all that, Only out of curiosity, how many do you have to make & sell to offset the time & money invested in this way of modifing the stock grille & is there that big of a market for a modified vs. stock 1940 Merc grille?
    I'm not mad at you guys, regardless of all of the above, I would still really like to know HOW they did it back then.
    Casey I have a call into my Gary Matranga connection to find out.
    Maybe he can post a tech how to.
    Don't get so bitter Mr. Ketterhagen, the Bears will win again someday.

    I love Samuri Mike

    Cheatercarl
     
  19. roadkillontheweb
    Joined: Dec 28, 2006
    Posts: 1,379

    roadkillontheweb
    Member

    The originals were made with very expensive tooling and minimal labor for high production runs.
    Modern technology allows us to lower tooling costs for short production runs but there is higher labor. I normally look for 10-12 piece run for tooling cost coverage but I have done it in a lot less once you get some experience and resources. The hardest thing to do is find a nice original piece or pattern built from scratch to start with. I have had my fingerprints picked up by the mold and faithfully reproduced with every piece so any flaws on the original will need to be corrected in the mold or on each reproduced piece. Also it is much easier to remove a hill than fill a hole when working with castings. I sometimes cut a small piece out of the mold in order to have excess material to grind away after the piece is cast rather than filling the holes.
     
  20. CaseyK
    Joined: Jan 27, 2004
    Posts: 386

    CaseyK
    Member

    I have access to all the things needed to do the molds and pour the parts - and I have done it before, mostly casting resins and the such, but it's the same procedure. The tooling is fairly inexpensive and easy to do, so time invested is minimal - plus, I'd most likely be doing it at work over lunch hours. I look at it this way - do you really get your time back in dollars? Carl, do you think you got money for all the time spent building your Coupe? Probably not - but it's the building part that's fun! It really doesn't matter to me how Barris or Matranga did it, I'm more interested in being able to do it myself, making it how I want to, and maybe being able to sell a few to buy more parts for the car.

    Bring back my Superbowl shuffle 45 when you finish loading it on to your ipod!

    and Post some pix of your 2 shit boxes your working on when you get time too!

    Casey
     
  21. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    The Punky QB is alive & well!

    Hey would it make more sense to repop an unmodified original version vs a modified/filled version or how much more would it take to do both? I only ask cuz it seems like the demand for a stock Mercury part of this nature would be much more than a kustom unit.

    What do you think this is a union shop? Dude, I work for like $6.50 an hour so I totally got my money out of my coupe! Plus I only take 15 min. for lunch.

    I'm not a strong picture poster so I will need yours or Romes help w/the Ford pics.
    But that would be cool.

    It's pretty obvious that you just want to ride your machine & not be hassled by the man and maybe get loaded.

    One last question....Do you think Ray has his shirt unbuttoned as I type this?

    "When I think of quality, I think of Wrangler...always have"......Brett Lorenzo Favre

    This shit is a lifestyle brothers!

    Love,
    Cheatercarl
     
  22. coolstuff
    Joined: Oct 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,683

    coolstuff
    Member
    from Bettendorf

    nice Fonda reference there
     

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